Category talk:English Thieves' Cant

RFM discussion: July 2022–March 2024
Currently, this category contains 123 English entries, 1 Japanese entry, and 3 Yiddish entries. This is inconsistent with how categories usually work (compare Category:English fandom slang or Category:English Polari slang). I suggest that we split Category:Thieves' cant into Category:English thieves' cant, Category:Japanese thieves' cant, and Category:Yiddish thieves' cant, allowing for more subcategories if the need arises. Binarystep (talk) 11:33, 21 July 2022 (UTC)


 * Sounds reasonable. 98.170.164.88 11:41, 21 July 2022 (UTC)


 * Yeah. The category description suggests it was originally intended only for English (compare Category:Rotwelsch, for one or two languages not directly specific in the name). If multiple languages have thieves' cants, as seems to be the case, then this should be split per nom . - -sche (discuss) 23:35, 23 July 2022 (UTC)
 * I assumed this was a mistake, to be quite honest. Seems odd to assume this would only exist in English in the first place, really. Theknightwho (talk) 23:40, 23 July 2022 (UTC)
 * In fairness, the Wikipedia article and most books I can find about it take it as given that it's an English thing; I've occasionally even seen it capitalized as it people thought of it as the name of a specific lect. Apparently the term for it in other languages and other time periods of English is criminal slang, I now realize. Hmm, now I wonder whether we should split this after all, since then the "thieves' cant" and "criminal slang" categories would overlap. But the current name is clearly too ambiguous, since people are adding non-English entries to it. Maybe we should move the English entries to "English thieves' cant" (for the historical lect) and disperse the other languages and any modern English developments to Category:Criminal slang by language? - -sche (discuss) 23:51, 23 July 2022 (UTC)
 * Other languages definitely have thieves' cants, but they might not use the term "thieves' cant". Rotwelsch is German thieves' cant, but it's just called Rotwelsch. —Mahāgaja · talk 06:56, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
 * It seems reasonable to use "criminal slang" as the proper category for such terms. "English thieves' cant" can be made a subcategory of that. — Sgconlaw (talk) 07:01, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
 * I think that’s a good idea, because that can be broken down by language, and allows for categories like this to go under the language categories. No doubt there are numerous lects of criminal slang in English alone. Theknightwho (talk) 21:23, 14 August 2022 (UTC)


 * OK, I moved the three Yiddish entries and one Japanese entry to "criminal slang". For the English entries, are we renaming the historical English "Thieves' cant" lect(s) to "English thieves' cant" for clarity? And then are we
 * making the "thieves' cant" label English-only, i.e. changing it from always adding  regardless of language code to always adding   (a subcategory of "English criminal slang"), and ongoingly removing uses outside English?
 * or allowing for other languages to have their own "thieves' cant" subcategories of "criminal slang" (which entails changing the label to use  so each language could have its own "thieves' cant" subcategory of "criminal slang")?
 * - -sche (discuss) 20:39, 21 August 2022 (UTC)
 * I’d say leave “Thieves’ cant” as English-only. It seems a peculiarly archaic English expression rather than a general term of art. — Sgconlaw (talk) 11:33, 17 September 2022 (UTC)
 * , and I dislike the usage of criminal slang, this might differ by language. Vininn126 (talk) 14:02, 17 August 2023 (UTC)
 * IMO we should use "criminal slang" for the general set of terms. As others have pointed out, "cant" has a primarily historical usage, and not all criminals are thieves. I would make Category:Thieves' cant a subcategory of Category:English criminal slang, though. Benwing2 (talk) 18:41, 17 August 2023 (UTC)
 * I suppose having both and making thieves' cant a subcategory would be a good solution. Vininn126 (talk) 19:02, 17 August 2023 (UTC)


 * OK, if I am reading the discussion above as saying "thieves' cant" should only be used for English (for the historical lect) and other languages, and non-Thieves'-Cant English criminal slang, should use "criminal slang", then (1) maybe we should capitalize it "Thieves' Cant" for clarity, and (2) is there a way to make lb treat "thieves' cant" as "criminal slang" if it's used with any other language besides ? I just had to change a Korean instance to "criminal slang" today, because it was categorizing the Korean entry into "Category:Thieves' cant" along with English terms. (Alternatively, if it would be easier: make "thieves' cant" default to categorizing into "LANGUAGE criminal slang" and then special-case use with  .) - -sche (discuss) 00:08, 18 August 2023 (UTC)
 * @-sche Yes, the latter is possible. I think capitalizing Thieves' Cant is a good idea. Benwing2 (talk) 00:35, 18 August 2023 (UTC)


 * OK, I believe I've made it so that "Thieves' Cant" is English-only and any other language that tries to use it gets categorized as "criminal slang". If a language has a more specific label like Rotwelsch, use that. - -sche (discuss) 21:19, 29 March 2024 (UTC)