Category talk:Serbo-Croatian concrete verbs

RFD discussion: April 2018–April 2019
The distinction doesn’t seem to make sense for the language. Guldrelokk (talk) 15:10, 5 April 2018 (UTC)
 * --Per utramque cavernam (talk) 17:00, 5 April 2018 (UTC)
 * If it helps, here is an explanation of what these mean with example pairs below. Guldrelokk (talk) 18:11, 5 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Yeah, this is not a thing in Serbo-Croatian. Crom daba (talk) 20:03, 5 April 2018 (UTC)
 * +1 to what Crom Daba says. It would be good to know if the same holds for other Slavic languages with these categories. (I don’t think any South Slavic language other than OCS makes this distinction.) — Vorziblix (talk · contribs) 23:47, 5 April 2018 (UTC)


 * Before we delete them, are we absolutely sure that there is no such distinction between the pairs e.g. /  and  / ? Maybe the name for this phenomenon is different in Serbo-Croatian or it's much less prominent than in East Slavic languages? --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 00:08, 6 April 2018 (UTC)
 * This sort of meaning is expressed by verbs with durative/habitual aktionsart, but it's basically aspectual which I understand is not the case with Russian?
 * It's certainly not a part of our native grammar tradition, and I have never heard of using it in a SCr context.
 * hoditi is perhaps best described as poetic or archaic or something like that. The difference between hodati and hoditi is pragmatical rather than grammatical in any case.
 * nesti only means to bear eggs according to HJP and it's not even a part of my idiolect (maybe it's only used in Croatian?), I would say nositi, when I saw the word I expected a Kajkavism. Crom daba (talk) 02:01, 6 April 2018 (UTC)
 * : Thanks. The difference between and ( or ) is certainly not aspectual, they are both imperfective. I don't know about the non-grammatical, such as poetic but your use of "durative/habitual aktionsart" tells me that there is something about the abstract/concrete concept. It IS grammatical, even though it is about the senses/usage of these pairs. Can you describe me the usage difference between "ja idem" and "ja hodim", please? --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 02:23, 6 April 2018 (UTC)
 * By "aspectual" I mean aktionsart rather than the binary categorization. Instead of "durative" I should have said "iterative", but I can't think of any movement verb pairs which aren't diminutives trčkarati/trčati, skakutati/skakati or suppletive hodati/šetati.
 * "Ja idem" is "I'm going", "Ja hodam" is "I'm walking" and "Ja hodim" would only be said (where I come from) as a quote from the Bible or a song or otherwise in affectation. Crom daba (talk) 02:44, 6 April 2018 (UTC)
 * : Thanks. Someone else in this discussion says that there is no such distinction in South Slavic languages: WR: East and West Slavic languages - verbs of motion. There are some Russian and Czech examples in the topic. (Iterative is not the same as abstract). --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 03:08, 6 April 2018 (UTC)
 * There is in Slovene and Bulgarian (ходя на училище and отивам на училище seem to have the expected meaning), but both хожу в школу and иду в школу are truly idem u školu in BCMS, CMIIW. Guldrelokk (talk) 06:16, 6 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Never mind, I found this (in Russian). There is a single relic in Bulgarian, none in Macedonian, and its usage doesn’t seem to be very consistent. I don’t think there is a point in having two categories each for one verb. Guldrelokk (talk) 06:30, 6 April 2018 (UTC)
 * : Thanks, and as per my previous link to WR forum, Slovene examples:
 * Hodim v šolo. = I go to school (regularly). - abstract
 * Grem v šolo. = I'm going to school (at the moment). - concrete
 * I had trouble finding sufficient examples of abstract/concrete for Serbo-Croatian (ie. BCMS) and Macedonian, so these (sh and mk) don't have this concept in modern languages? --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 06:37, 6 April 2018 (UTC)
 * They don’t. Bulgarian seems to have one pair, so I don’t think there is a need for categories too. Slovene alone preserves most pairs intact, compare this and this. Guldrelokk (talk) 06:51, 6 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I somehow managed to pass over the Slovene pairs; sorry. Some more Slovene examples are on the first page here. — Vorziblix (talk · contribs) 07:05, 6 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Delete, as two native speakers agree that it's not a relevant distinction in Serbo-Croatian., another opinion? Per utramque cavernam 19:46, 9 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Why aren’t they deleted already as empty categories? (Because there are 4,000 empty categories and nobody goes through them …) Fay Freak (talk) 19:49, 9 November 2018 (UTC)

I've stricken them as they seem to have been deleted already. —Rua (mew) 17:40, 30 April 2019 (UTC)