Reconstruction talk:Proto-Germanic/dungijǭ

*dungō
My next question was going to be <<Does the "bower" sense follow a different path from, bypassing the "dung/manure" step altogether. I've always had an issue with "bower" being derived directly from "dunghill"...but I can see it coming from something meaning "covering, seclusion, protection" instead. Leasnam (talk) 21:35, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
 * How do you feel about the "bower/apartment" sense deriving instead from 🇨🇬 + -jǭ ? Leasnam (talk) 03:04, 21 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I can certainly see the argument for a merger of two terms here. -- Sokkjō 03:14, 21 April 2024 (UTC)
 * , ok, Thanks ! Let me work on it. I'll probably split the entry into 2 etymologies :] Leasnam (talk) 03:19, 21 April 2024 (UTC)
 * As stated in the edit summary (comment) I simply updated the etymology verbiage to mention each sense separately. Leasnam (talk) 03:39, 21 April 2024 (UTC)
 * I think it should be split into two separate etymologies. I don't know if this has been proposed, but PG could be from PIE, metathesized and leveled from , cognate with 🇨🇬, with the common semantic change of  to . -- Sokkjō 04:17, 21 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Ah, that's interesting. --Okay, I'll split it in the am, 'tis late and I'm ready for some Zzz :] Leasnam (talk) 04:26, 21 April 2024 (UTC)
 * , After further research, I'm finding that means only "bower" and (in combination) "heap, pile" - not "heap or pile of dung" but only "heap, pile (of anything)" (cf.  = "pile of ashes" - no reference to 'dung'). Likewise, Danish  simply means "pile, heap, mound" and also Faroese  means "heap, pile, multitude, crowd". No hint of 'manure'. Only when combined with  does it mean "pile of muck/dung" as in  whence our word . Old Swedish is the only language that develops the sense of "dung-pile" alongside "pile" (perhaps as a shortening of *mykidyngja ?). This means that the original sense of  may have simply meant "pile, mound" (possibly "fortification, structure") without reference to 'manure'. Your thoughts ? Leasnam (talk) 17:28, 21 April 2024 (UTC)
 * ⇒ ? -- Sokkjō 19:39, 21 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Yes, and with a tiny tweak ⇒ ; or perhaps  ⇒  ? Leasnam (talk) 20:06, 21 April 2024 (UTC)
 * , again, I think these two terms need to be explicitly separated from one another. -- Sokkjō 00:04, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Roger that. I started to split them, but I'll need to separate them first at PWG and Old Norse. Leasnam (talk) 12:58, 22 April 2024 (UTC)


 * should be split as well. -- Sokkjō 05:54, 25 April 2024 (UTC)
 * I've moved to  and changed it's definition to include, and merged it back to a single noun as the Romance borrowings mean a fortified tower. I can't help but notice the parallels to  ~  (as well as burrow). -- Sokkjō 07:38, 25 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Okay, I'll take a look at . I agree about the parallel. They both seem to connect "stronghold/high place" with a sense of "seclusion", an animal's burrow being it's stronghold. Leasnam (talk) 17:01, 25 April 2024 (UTC)


 * I see you added to . This is probably overthinking, but it does look to be cognate with, and  (PS ?), from PIE . -- Sokkjō 16:41, 29 April 2024 (UTC)