Reconstruction talk:Proto-Slavic/o(b)

RFM discussion: July 2014–May 2017

 * See Reconstruction talk:Proto-Slavic/sъ(n).

Abessive function
🇨🇬 (not sure for 🇨🇬) can also have abessive function. Words such as (literally one that does not flow) and  (literally place that is not lit by the sun) come to mind with this meaning. I'm not entirely sure if 🇨🇬 exactly reflect 🇨🇬 or continues / (possibly but not very likely ) but in case there is no further evidence to reconstruct a preposition, we should add the proposed meaning under. Bezimenen (talk) 12:22, 7 October 2019 (UTC)
 * Remark: Edited in response to . Originally, I translated it as "alternative, opposite of" for lack of better words, which does not reflect exactly what I meant.


 * 1) I don't see who explains as "one that does not flow". In the given dictionaries it's explained as "what gets flow around (обтекаемое)", in other words "land surrounded by flowing water". 2)  is related to,  and cognate to 🇨🇬, 🇨🇬. Therefore meaning of the prefix is not significant. —Игорь Тълкачь (talk) 20:52, 8 October 2019 (UTC)
 * I've been looking on the words for shadow in proto-Indo-European and unfortunately there is no general consensus what root they reflect. At least, what Wiktionary gives for 🇨🇬 is not identical to the root that gave 🇨🇬. As far as what I could find, the Slavic data reflects 🇨🇬, while the Greek is derived from (either reconstructed as  or as ). So the two may not actually be cognates.
 * I agree that the interpretation of as what the stream flows around also makes sense, but nevertheless the abessive meaning is still well attested. Here is a reference: . Snoj gives as an example 🇨🇬. Bezimenen (talk) 22:21, 8 October 2019 (UTC)
 * : There is with similar meaning (e.g. 🇨🇬, 🇨🇬) and it had ъ-less variant  judging by forms,  and possibly also /, 🇨🇬/, 🇨🇬/ (for more words see this). Therefore 🇨🇬 may contain prefix 🇨🇬.
 * : This problem is complicated. If words and  are related, then  is not issue and it's derived from . But i couldn't find exact analogs:
 * "to shine > to reflect" (🇨🇬, ?, 🇨🇬?, 🇨🇬)
 * "reflection > shadow" (couldn't find, particularly in, , )
 * "reflection < shadow" ((🇨🇬, 🇨🇬, 🇨🇬, 🇨🇬, 🇨🇬, also 🇨🇬 and 🇨🇬))
 * If "shadow" can't be derived from "to shine", then the words may be are unrelated (especially if is variant to ). Then  (and likely antonymous, ) can be derived from noun , from . Compare forms  (from noun),  (from noun via verb ). —Игорь Тълкачь (talk) 14:32, 10 October 2019 (UTC)
 * : In principle, we could also explain as a place which sun rays shine around (and effectively does not get lit). Just like the explanation you gave to . Nevertheless, even if we ignore *ostrovъ, *osoje, there are other examples like the ones suggested by Snoj which exemplify the abessive function of . I don't insist that we should base the proposed function exactly on *ostrovъ and *osoje. I just proposed them from the top of my head, without thinking whether they could be explained otherwise (and, as it turns out, they can). Bezimenen (talk) 16:43, 10 October 2019 (UTC)