Talk:гнѣзда

Dictionaries
Could you tell me a couple of similar dictionaries? Gnosandes ❀ (talk) 13:48, 9 May 2023 (UTC)


 * @Gnosandes See here: http://runeberg.org/rusv1896/0142.html. Theknightwho (talk) 13:53, 9 May 2023 (UTC)
 * But this is a Russian-Swedish dictionary. And this was done, apparently, in order for the Swedes to learn Russian. I would like to see some dictionary after 1900, when the spelling was already more or less established. Gnosandes ❀ (talk) 14:00, 9 May 2023 (UTC)
 * @Gnosandes I'm not interested in arguing with someone who deletes things because they "doubt they ever existed", and then keeps arguing even when presented with evidence to the contrary. Pinging @Atitarev @Benwing2. This is not new, either - it's been mentioned on WT:Russian transliteration for a long time. Theknightwho (talk) 14:02, 9 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Of course, because there are no links to sources. I doubted it, but I got them from you. I'm not arguing, but I'm saying that this is a dictionary for foreigners or something similar. In addition, I asked you to provide a couple of dictionaries (or 3 dictionaries), you gave me only one dictionary. Gnosandes ❀ (talk) 14:09, 9 May 2023 (UTC)
 * @Gnosandes I need to track down the source properly, but this is apparently from the third edition of «Толковый словарь живого великорусского языка» from 1903. See lines 3 and 4. Theknightwho (talk) 14:21, 9 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Ять с точками.gif
 * Thank you, but could you please indicate the source for these forms? I did it exactly the same way admin Thadh once did it for me. See the comment on his first edit. Gnosandes ❀ (talk) 14:34, 9 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Other than ѣ̈ it's completely regular, because ѣ́ would fall in the same places. It's the same as е́ versus ё. Theknightwho (talk) 14:43, 9 May 2023 (UTC)
 * As far as I know, in Russian ё is not optional. Gnosandes ❀ (talk) 14:50, 9 May 2023 (UTC)
 * @Gnosandes Why do you think is different? Theknightwho (talk) 15:01, 9 May 2023 (UTC)
 * I do not think so. I was curious about this, in 2018 my friend gave me a source in which it was written that the Russian House of Romanov did not pronounce this ѣ~ѣ̈ as ʲɛ~ʲɔ. They pronounced ѣ~ѣ̈ very archaically when it was still a diphthong. I'll try to find out more about this source. Gnosandes ❀ (talk) 15:12, 9 May 2023 (UTC)
 * @Gnosandes Thanks. I also think we should probably include it in the page title, for consistency with . It seems to be extremely rare, though I have just found another example: / . Theknightwho (talk) 15:24, 9 May 2023 (UTC)
 * I do not know, but I know that you pinged very smart people above, let them deal with it. Gnosandes ❀ (talk) 15:28, 9 May 2023 (UTC)
 * @Theknightwho, @Gnosandes: I don't remember who first offered to use . It may be @Wikitiki89 or @Benwing2. It has been adopted at Wiktionary, even if it was rarely used for convenience and for the lack of anything else.
 * I softened my position on not using in the Russian headword for pre-1918 spellings but like @Fay Freak on my talk page, I can see pluses and minuses of that approach. @Benwing2: what do you think?
 * I also think that there is a potential candidate for ->  (with diaeresis) to be read as  when it is pronounced so but there were two possible readings. Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 09:48, 10 May 2023 (UTC)
 * I remember making a change awhile ago to remove the special-casing in the declension and conjugation modules that generated pre-reform links without ё. Now the links contain ё so I think we should include them, and logically this means also including . As long as we have soft redirects like we do for ё, this should be fine. I haven't encountered things like before but this is a logical extension. Benwing2 (talk) 23:34, 10 May 2023 (UTC)
 * @Atitarev @Benwing2 I should note that appears in a 1948 dictionary . I suspect the original source was «Толковый словарь живого великорусского языка». Given the consensus is generally in favour, I have excluded these from diacritic removal. Theknightwho (talk) 16:55, 13 May 2023 (UTC)
 * @Theknightwho: Thanks! I've made the entry for . will probably become both an entry and a soft redirect to it. Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 23:01, 13 May 2023 (UTC)
 * @Atitarev Thanks! Page 49 of «Русскій языкъ въ культурно-историческомъ измѣреніи» has a use right at the top of the page, but it also gives the example of archaic having the plural . Modern spellings are  and . Theknightwho (talk) 23:23, 13 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Oh, also as a variant of . Theknightwho (talk) 23:36, 13 May 2023 (UTC)
 * @Theknightwho: Yep. Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 23:40, 13 May 2023 (UTC)
 * @Theknightwho, @Benwing2: Thanks, I would think that is an example of, which is now standard Belarusian.
 * Yes, there were also, in the same document: archaic, modern or pre-reform.
 * Also, verbs like (the stem ) had an old form  instead of / Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 23:39, 13 May 2023 (UTC)
 * See https://istina.msu.ru/publications/article/27486902/ page 262, volume 2 Gnosandes ❀ (talk) 23:48, 13 May 2023 (UTC)
 * @Gnosandes Thanks. Theknightwho (talk) 00:01, 14 May 2023 (UTC)
 * He discusses Itkin's law:
 * In the wordform of the (historical) accent paradigm b, where ѣ (and я = ѧ) is followed by a combination of consonants with the participation of two voiced ± sonorant or arbitrary single + sonorant (including the groups *-dl- and *-tl- to be further simplified into -л-), this ѣ (and я), contrary to the general rule about its ё-resistance, also passes into [ʲo], i.e. into ѣ̈ (and я̈ [= ѧ̈]). Gnosandes ❀ (talk) 00:06, 14 May 2023 (UTC)
 * It's been bugging me a little since we made the change, but I was thinking we should probably change the transliterations of and  to indicate that they're different, in a similar way we do for . That paper on Itkin's law transliterates both on page 271 (where it gives a short summary of the article in English), and uses  and . I'm not sure I agree with the latter, which is influenced by, but it would make a lot of sense to use  (with and without a stress accent, in the same way as we do for ). Theknightwho (talk) 15:52, 10 July 2023 (UTC)
 * What do you think Anatoli? User:Theknightwho I am fine with jǒ if you prefer that. Benwing2 (talk) 21:06, 10 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Hello @Benwing2, @Theknightwho. Sorry for not responding earlier, I am back from a two week leave - went skiing in Mount Hotham and Falls Creek (Victoria, Australia).
 * I don't have a strong opinion on this. Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 23:48, 16 July 2023 (UTC)