Talk:лошадь

The etymology would be appreciated. --Fsojic (talk) 17:54, 6 October 2012 (UTC)


 * From Old Russian лошата. Initially, Old Russian *лоша (genitive *лошате), special declension on -ent- names of many animals in this category. The ending -дь related to Old Russian, OCS ослѣдь. Presumably old borrowing from Turkic. cf. Chuvash laša (horse), Turkish, Crimean Tatar, Tatar, Karachay, and Balkar alaša. —Stephen (Talk) 20:09, 6 October 2012 (UTC)

Pronunciation
I was surprised to see /loʂɨtʲ/ (with /ɨ/ [ы)) as a phonetic transcription. For me it is /a/! --Eugrus (talk) 11:28, 18 June 2013 (UTC)
 * I can't listen to the recording as I'm on ipad at the moment but the transcription is of Moscow style, otherwise it's a shwa. Vowels are reduced in Russian in the unstressed position and after hissing consonants are reduced differently. Check the Russian Wiktionary for alternative IPA. --Anatoli (обсудить/вклад) 12:06, 18 June 2013 (UTC)


 * Russian Wikitionary gives [ˈɫoʂətʲ] as well as [ˈɫoʂɨtʲ]. [ˈɫoʂɨtʲ] is explained as Московский норм (whatever that is). In my opinion, [ˈɫoʂətʲ] is correct. —Stephen (Talk) 12:17, 18 June 2013 (UTC)


 * I have replaced with [ˈɫoʂətʲ], which is more common. [ˈloʂɨtʲ] is not incorrect either, especially in the fluent, native speech. It's more normal to reduce а to [ɪ] after palatalised hissing consonant, as in площадь [ˈploɕːɪtʲ].
 * Russian "московская норма" means Moscow norm, since Moscow is the capital, local non-standard Moscow accent is often considered another standard, which is arguable. It's not the same as standard Russian, which is used by TV announcers. Many Russians think St. Petersburg, Nizhny Novgorod, etc. accents are closer to standard than that of native Muscovites. Their intonations, stretching some unstressed vowels and shortening others may sound funny. Try "московский акцент" on Youtube. --Anatoli (обсудить/вклад) 23:12, 18 June 2013 (UTC)


 * Just in case, I'd like to point out that there is no exact definition of "Moscow norm". It could also mean the Moscow form of the standard Russian, not the colloquial, less standard variety, e.g. Muscovites are more likely to pronounce "булочная" as "булошная", "скучно" as "скушно" (I say "скушно" but I'm not from Moscow). Older Moscow pronunciation has been described in some works, which are still acceptable but not as common, e.g. "четверг", "верх" as "четверьг", "верьх". Moscow accent gave rise to now standard pronunciation of "что", "чтобы", "конечно" and "яичница" as "што", "штобы", "конешно" and "яишница".
 * Older Moscow accent used to be standard for singers. Like - -кий/-гий adjective endings were pronounced as -кай/-гай or -кый/-гый. When I was in a music school for a short period, my teacher taught us to sing "...срывался голос мой высокай/высокый ... белеет парус одинокай/одинокый..."
 * Another example of (old) Moscow norm: ending "-ся" pronounced as "-са" and "-сь" as "-с" even after vowels and liquid consonants: "осталса", "сделалса" instead of остался, сделался, "мчус", "напьюс" instead of мчусь", "напьюсь". (it is standard to pronounce "-ся" that way after "-т" and "-ть" - смеяться, смеётса are pronounced as смеяцца, смеёцца).
 * Just using Cyrillic letters to render pronunciation, spellings "булошная", "скушно", "четверьг", "верьх", "што", "штобы", "конешно" and "яишница", etc. are incorrect, of course). --Anatoli (обсудить/вклад) 03:21, 19 June 2013 (UTC)


 * I know someone in Kiev who speaks with a Russian accent that I really like. It has a slight Ukrainian note that makes it interesting. Another friend is from Perm, and it strikes me as odd that his syllable-final -л is more like the Polish -ł or the Serbian -ао. I enjoy hearing his accent, but it seems to disturb other Russians who pride themselves on speaking pure Standard Russian.
 * Northern Russian is fascinating, with its оканье and the way they change unstressed -е- to unstressed -ё- at the end of a word or in front of a hard consonant: жёна́, сёло́, вёла́, пла́тьё.
 * Speaking of music school, when I was in the army I spent some time in a Russian military choir learning traditional songs. A large part of the repertoire were Cossack songs, which were mostly Ukrainian. The choir director was Николай Воробьёв, a Don Cossack, which probably explains all the Cossack songs. —Stephen (Talk) 07:31, 19 June 2013 (UTC)