Talk:三枚目

RFV discussion: October 2019–February 2021
Does this word have the sense "antagonist; villain"? Such a usage is not found on Google. ᾨδή (talk) 02:37, 1 October 2019 (UTC)

@Eirikr ᾨδή (talk) 08:48, 1 October 2019 (UTC)


 * @ᾨδή: I based that on my local copy of the KDJ, which is the most in-depth dictionary that I'm aware of and that I have access to. That 三枚目 entry has the following definition (emphasis mine):

演劇、映画などで道化役や敵役（かたきやく）をする者.
 * Checking elsewhere, I see that the Sekai Dai Hyakka Jiten entry over here on Kotobank adds a little more detail:

... 滑稽な敵役を〈三枚目敵（さんまいめがたき）〉と呼ぶ.
 * So not just an antagonist, but specifically a comic antagonist. That said, the Zokugo Dai Jiten entry here on Weblio keeps the "comic" and "antagonist" role senses separate:

① 第（だい）三流所（りうどころ）の意から転じて、敵役（かたきやく）とか道化役者（だうけやくしや）のことをいふ. 〔歌舞伎〕 ... ③〔演〕敵役、又は道化役者のこと.
 * The "antagonist" sense might be dated or historical rather than current, I have no particular data on that.  might have more insight.  ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │Tala við mig 15:45, 1 October 2019 (UTC)
 * Eirikr: I can see the second link give its source as 隠語大辞典, wherein interestingly it even has a meaning "屋根を破る窃盗犯". It sounds like an argot or something, as means 隠語. I guess this sense must have been of very limited usage and even native Japanese people may not have ever heard of it. I suggest leaving this sense out when writing a short definition in sections like "See also". ᾨδή (talk) 16:26, 1 October 2019 (UTC)
 * I personally didn’t know the “antagonist” sense. That must be obsolete and probably rare. — T AKASUGI Shinji (talk) 23:03, 1 October 2019 (UTC)
 * TAKASUGI Shinji:, that sense already has labels for "dated" and "uncommon". Should that be changed?  ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │Tala við mig 19:14, 4 October 2019 (UTC)
 * I have never seen it and it may be rather “rare” than “uncommon”. We need some citations. — T AKASUGI Shinji (talk) 08:11, 5 October 2019 (UTC)
 * Apparently resolved, as the questioned sense no longer exists. &mdash; surjection &lang;??&rang; 18:14, 8 February 2021 (UTC)