Talk:刃

Differences in appearance

 * Title added. —Nils von Barth (nbarth) (talk) 11:14, 18 February 2011 (UTC)

Why has the information about differences in appearance been deleted? And what's "twaek"?

See also. The new language tags (see links to English language sites here) can be used as an alternative to the same image: (I hope none of these is actually supposed to be 刄.)
 * 刃 :
 * 刃 :
 * 刃 :
 * 刃 :

To see the glyph shape difference, you need locale-tailored fonts and must set your browser preferences to use them appropriately. Dustsucker 16:42, 7 November 2006 (UTC)


 * The differences will be shown properly in the language sections once the bot gets here. Each one uses the correct lang and font-family etc. is borrowed from WP, and is much less specific than the language font templates we use here; as you can see it has severe problems, it should be gotten rid of. (and "lang" is a terrible name on a wikt! it could mean anything!)


 * and twaek is just my idiosyncratic spelling of tweak, with a different meaning. sorry. Robert Ullmann 17:16, 7 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Sorry, I wasn't aware that bots are going to insert something even better. I didn't mean to suggest using for this, but wanted to demonstrate that a template with similar code as  could do the trick. After my edit, I noticed somewhere else that you seem to already know about it all quite well. Dustsucker 20:37, 7 November 2006 (UTC)


 * In addition to the different forms being shown in language-specific sections, I’ve also added a summary and note to the Translingual section so the different forms can easily be compared.
 * —Nils von Barth (nbarth) (talk) 11:14, 18 February 2011 (UTC)

Possible Trace of Absorbed Possessive?
Could it be possible that OJ /jakiba/ was actually *[jaki-mpa]? Might *mpa have come from n-pa < *na-pa / *nə-pa, with *na / nə being the possessive particle (modern な / の)? Sometimes rendaku does not happen even though neither of the compound's two morphemes contains a voiced/prenasalised stop, which will block rendaku (as per Lyman's Law); e.g. Yamakawa [jamakaɰᵝa] "mountain & river" (presumably < OJ /jamakapa/) vs. Yamagawa [jamaŋaɰᵝa] (< OJ /jama-n-kapa/ < /jama-na/nə-kapa/). Erminwin (talk) 21:03, 26 March 2020 (UTC)


 * There's a general notion that the rendaku phenomenon was originally just that, a contraction of causing voicing of the following consonant.
 * However, for etymon, the term is only attested as late as 1244, so Old Japanese isn't terribly relevant.  ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │Tala við mig 21:46, 26 March 2020 (UTC)

yaiba and na
Heya, thank you for your work on this. It's prompted me to take a closer look and a closer think at a few things. :)


 * About the yaiba reading, a tilde over a letter in IPA indicates nasalization. See also Tilde.  There's nothing in the phonology of the shift from yakiba to yaiba that could have caused nasalization.  Was there a different diacritic you intended?
 * About the na reading, I added that on the basis of the etyms given in Daijirin, Daijisen, and the KDJ, as visible here at Kotobank, among other places.  Looking at it now, I think this na "blade" sense should probably instead go at 🇨🇬 or even 🇨🇬.
 * What do you think?

Cheers, ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │Tala við mig 16:48, 15 September 2020 (UTC)


 * of course; at first I thought you might have did the →  as well in the past, or was it about  → . Else, please summarize what's  for tsuitachi, Saitama, tsuide, classical and modern adjectives, etc.
 * And for the na with the meaning of "blade" or "edge", I can't find it in a dictionary, let alone one from the prewar Dai-Nippon Kokugo Dai Jiten; so it's probably an ancient Korean loan or one you made up. It should be placed in the Etymology section of just to match the online dictionaries regardless.
 * Thoughts? ～ POKéTalker（═◉═） 05:26, 16 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Re: the tilde, that was probably in reference to a →  shift.  There, the  as a nasal consonant prompts the nasalization of the following, as the two sounds kind of blended together.  For  → , the  has the allophonic realization , which again is a nasal.  So for , we have an historical progression something like  →  → .  But for  → , there is no nasal consonant, so nothing that could cause nasalization.
 * Re: the na, definitely nothing I made up, but rather got directly from the etyms as listed at Kotobank. Although in retrospect I think I was overly assertive in adding the na reading for, and I did not go as far in my research as I do these days.  Had I done so, I would have realized that I couldn't track down any cites of 刃 as na outside of those etymology notes -- which themselves don't include quotes.  Given the paucity of other terms manifesting this element (maaaaybe in , which may itself also be a Koreanic borrowing; possibly also ?  C.f. Gogen-Allguide), I think you're probably right that it's likely a borrowing, albeit a very old one.  Cheers!  ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │Tala við mig 08:01, 16 September 2020 (UTC)
 * ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │Tala við mig 08:01, 16 September 2020 (UTC)

RFV discussion: September 2020–February 2021
Nowhere in Kotobank has the reading for. However, the final na in is most likely a term for "blade" or "edge" and is possibly a loan from a older Korean term. Regarding the pillow word 剣太刀 (tsurugi-tachi), it alludes to only and, both read as indeed na, definitions "name" and "you" respectively. Other than that, KDJ is obscure about this: ②「名」や「汝(な)」にかかる. 刃(な)と同音であるところからか. "...thought to be homonymous with ." ～ POKéTalker（═◉═） 02:56, 15 September 2020 (UTC)
 * See also related thread at Talk:刃.
 * Summary -- while a na element did exist with an apparent meaning of "blade", it is not attested with the spelling.  ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │Tala við mig 19:51, 2 November 2020 (UTC)


 * I've moved the relevant section and, and  to reflect the other two changes.
 * I think this RFV is done. @POKéTalker, please have a look, adjust as appropriate, and strike this entry if all looks good to you.  ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │Tala við mig 19:54, 4 December 2020 (UTC)


 * Striking. @POKéTalker, if this is in error and there are lingering issues, please un-strike and update this thread accordingly.  ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │Tala við mig 18:43, 1 February 2021 (UTC)