Talk:渦巻銀河

Yomi type for 河
@Poketalker, in the term 銀河, the が reading for 河 is the goon as-is. The Sakura Paris dictionary UI is quite helpful, allowing us to look for all NKD compounds that end in 河, as at https://sakura-paris.org/dict/%E6%97%A5%E6%9C%AC%E5%9B%BD%E8%AA%9E%E5%A4%A7%E8%BE%9E%E5%85%B8/suffix/%E6%B2%B3. We can then search on the page for 「‐が【」 to find all those listed that use 河 with a reading of が. This nets us:


 * - cited to 759 in the MYS
 * - cited to 1223
 * - cited to 1500
 * - no cite, the Japanese reading of a Chinese river name
 * - cited to 1603 in the Nippo Jisho
 * - cited to 969
 * - cited to 751
 * - cited to 1060
 * - cited to 759 in the MYS
 * - no cite, the Japanese reading of a Chinese river name
 * - cited to the early 1200s in the Heike Monogatari
 * - no cite, the Japanese reading of a Chinese river name
 * - cited to 1430
 * - cited to 1018
 * - cited to 1060
 * - cited to 751, same Kafūsō document as for 銀河
 * - cited to 892
 * - cited to 1430
 * - cited to 1084-1094
 * - cited to 1060
 * - cited to 1458
 * - cited to 1868
 * - no cite, the Japanese reading of a Chinese river name
 * - no cite, the Japanese reading of a Chinese river name

24 hits. Of these, 5 are Chinese river names with no date of first citation that I can find. For another 5, the reading of the first kanji ends in -n, raising the possibility of rendaku. Even omitting these, we have 14 left where the -ga does not follow -n, making rendaku unlikely, such that we must accept that -ga is a valid and unshifted reading of 河 in compounds.

If we then search on the page for 「‐か【」 to find all those listed that use 河 with a reading of か, we find 9 hits:


 * - no cite
 * - cited to 1477
 * - no cite
 * - cited to 835
 * - no cite, the Japanese reading of a Chinese river name
 * - cited to 1717
 * - cited to 1717
 * - cited to 1231
 * - no cite, the Japanese reading of a Chinese river name

All told, が is the more common reading. Given the data above, and given the early 751 date of first citation for 銀河, it really looks to me like the が reading in 銀河 is just the regular goon, and not the kan'on + rendaku. ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │Tala við mig 05:49, 21 January 2024 (UTC)


 * Would disagree on the grounds that the "affix" entry of the digital Daijisen (mentioned in the edit summary) has that same ginga on it among most of the entries you listed above, no surprise there, implying the "kan'on + rendaku" case most of the time. Else, why isn't there the supposed corresponding goon が affix on there?
 * Checking the old Weblio for the Daijirin entry using Wayback Machine, it's ambiguous, using both ka and ga without mention of Wu or Han-sound reading:
 * "【河】 ［音］ カ ・ガ 　　　① かわ. 「《カ》河口・河床・河伯」 「《ガ》運河・山河・大河・氷河」 　　　② もと、中国の黄河のこと. 「河南・河北」 　　　③ 天の川. 銀河. 「河漢」 　　　④ 「河内（かわち）国」の略.  「河州」"
 * "① River: (ka) estuary (kakō), riverbed (kashō), river god (kahaku); (ga) river canal/waterway (unga), mountain(s) and river(s) (sanka/sanga), large river (taiga), glacier (hyōga) 　　② Archaic term for the Yellow River: Henan (Kanan), Hebei (Kahoku) 　　③ Galaxy: Milky Way/Yellow and Han rivers (Kahan) 　　④ Abbreviation of Kawachi province (Kashū)"
 * Guess that which borrowing is which has to be done on a case-by-case basis then... ～ POKéTalker（＝◉＝） 06:47, 21 January 2024 (UTC)