Talk:鶴

OJP tadu, JA tazu
--

I cannot recall where I ran across つ, and I can't find it now, so thank you for clearing that out.

Separately, regarding the etym for the たづ reading, I don't have a source for that and had intended that to read as more speculative.

Some background:


 * Here's a breakdown of all the instances I can find in the MYS where is given the reading  in the kana rendering, and is spelled out phonetically in the poem text.


 * {| class="wikitable"

! Man'yōgana !! Phonetics || Poem link
 * rowspan=10 |
 * rowspan=10 |
 * MYS 3 - 324
 * MYS 4 - 509
 * MYS 6 - 919
 * MYS 6 - 961
 * MYS 6 - 1000
 * MYS 6 - 1030
 * MYS 10 - 2138
 * MYS 11 - 2490
 * MYS 11 - 2768
 * MYS 11 - 4398
 * rowspan=10 |
 * rowspan=10 | Ambiguous: or
 * MYS 6 - 1160
 * MYS 14 - 3522
 * MYS 14 - 3523
 * MYS 15 - 3595
 * MYS 15 - 3598
 * MYS 15 - 3627
 * MYS 15 - 3642
 * MYS 15 - 3654
 * MYS 18 - 4034
 * MYS 18 - 4116
 * rowspan=1 |
 * rowspan=2 |
 * MYS 1 - 71
 * rowspan=1 |
 * MYS 15 - 3626
 * }
 * MYS 15 - 3595
 * MYS 15 - 3598
 * MYS 15 - 3627
 * MYS 15 - 3642
 * MYS 15 - 3654
 * MYS 18 - 4034
 * MYS 18 - 4116
 * rowspan=1 |
 * rowspan=2 |
 * MYS 1 - 71
 * rowspan=1 |
 * MYS 15 - 3626
 * }
 * MYS 18 - 4116
 * rowspan=1 |
 * rowspan=2 |
 * MYS 1 - 71
 * rowspan=1 |
 * MYS 15 - 3626
 * }
 * MYS 15 - 3626
 * }


 * The instances of and  are both rendered as たづ in the UVA copy linked above.  However, in the man'yōgana table at w:Man'yōgana, both  and  are given the single unambiguous reading tu, suggesting that the unvoiced  reading might have been used.


 * In addition, we know from OJP phonology that voiced obstruents indicate contraction of an intervening nasal, often an absorbed の between two nouns, as described in brief at w:Old_Japanese. This points to tadu being the result of a compound of ta + nasal + tu → tantu → tadu.
 * From the phonology, and the MYS spellings, one possible inference is that tatu may represent a different kind of compounding construction, wherein the two hypothetical nouns ta and tu were joined without an intervening nasal.

The etym text for the /  reading is intended to distill this into a nutshell speculative suggestion for the derivation. I'll have a poke in a moment to reword; please reword further if it still sounds too authoritative. ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │Tala við mig 19:32, 10 October 2019 (UTC)


 * thanks for the information. By the way, you made a mistake on the man'yōgana 多頭 mentioned in the 2490th poem, which is actually part of the adjective . The “crane” sense is actually written as itself:
 * ～ POKéTalker（═◉═） 10:07, 13 October 2019 (UTC)
 * Thank you for the catch! Much of my analysis is based on regexes of HTML files, and it's easy to go cross-eyed from looking at the markup.  (◑__◐)  Cheers!  ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │Tala við mig 17:00, 14 October 2019 (UTC)
 * Thank you for the catch! Much of my analysis is based on regexes of HTML files, and it's easy to go cross-eyed from looking at the markup.  (◑__◐)  Cheers!  ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │Tala við mig 17:00, 14 October 2019 (UTC)