Talk:Dickensian

While a literary critic may only be comparing the authors styles, any other commentator has something specific in mind when referring to something as "Dickensian." "Of or pertaining to Charles Dickens, his writing, or the philosophies inherited from his writing" is vague and neglects that it is usually a reference to social injustice in particular that is being referenced. To leave out this specification implies that comparison to anything at all found in Dickens' writings can be called "Dickensian." The term is used far more commonly than comparisons to just any author. Look beyond literary sources and notice that political commentators often refer to situations as "Dickensian." By limiting the definition to the single vague definition, there is nothing to distinguish it from any other author comparison. Very few authors' writing styles have spawned a common idiom used outside the realm of literary criticism. If the reverts have a reason behind them, please just state what they are. Jg og 2 11:47, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

SemperBlotto seems to be reverting without any explanation. Please comment here rather than just engaging in repeated vandalism. Jg og 2 19:14, 3 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Your additional definition was a noun - Dickensian is an adjective. SemperBlotto 20:49, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

k_michael would like to add: I see no use of "Dickensian" as a noun. It's used consistently here (and in the definition)to refer to nouns, specifically: "something", "anything", and "situations". One thing I'd add to teh definition, however, is that, in addition to poverty, a specific component of "Diskensian nightmares" is that a tiny segment of the society holds nearly all of the wealth, and through it, controls nearly all of the governmental functions so as to preserve and increase this concentration of wealth.

Now in the TeaRoom: In addition to a general-purpose literary comparison to the writings of Charles Dickens, many commentators (political and social) have something specific in mind about the writings of Charles Dickens when they make this comparison. Several other dictionaries now list a qualifier or specification rather than only saying that Dickensian is "like Dickens." I could list the many versions of these more specific definitions now being used. I tried to introduce this on the talk page, but someone named SemperBlotto simply keeps vandalizing without any explanation. Is the use of "Dickensian" as a reference to some aspect of social injustice that unfamiliar and new? It seems to have gotten a lot of use lately anyway. examples (there are several others but often with exactly the same wording): . i) Dickensian Adjective 1. of Charles Dickens (1812–70), British novelist 2. denoting poverty, distress, and exploitation, as depicted in the novels of Dickens --Collins Essential English Dictionary 2nd Edition 2006 © HarperCollins Publishers 2004, 2006 . ii) Adj.	1.	Dickensian - of or like the novels of Charles Dickens (especially with regard to poor social and economic conditions) --Based on WordNet 3.0, Farlex clipart collection. © 2003-2008 Princeton University, Farlex Inc.. iii) Definition Dickensian adjective 1 relating or similar to something described in the books of the 19th century British writer, Charles Dickens, especially living or working conditions that are below an acceptable standard: The bathrooms in this hotel are positively Dickensian - no hot water and grime everywhere. 2 written by or in the style of Charles Dickens --(from Cambridge Advanced Learner's Dictionary) . iv) Dickensian /dikenzin/ • adjective reminiscent of the novels of Charles Dickens (1812-1870), especially in terms of the urban poverty that they portray. --Compact Oxford English Dictionary . v) Dickensian Dick·en·si·an [ di kénzee ən ] adjective Definition: 1. of Charles Dickens: relating to the 19th-century British novelist Charles Dickens 2. reminiscent of poverty-stricken Victorian Britain: typical or reminiscent of the harsh poverty-stricken living conditions described in the works of Dickens 3. jolly and genial: jolly and cordial, like some of the scenes and characters featured in the novels of Dickens 4. full of twists and amazing coincidences: full of twists and remarkable coincidences, like the plots of some of the novels of Dickens an episode too Dickensian for most modern audiences to swallow --ENCARTA.

Citations are now available on the citations page. I'm glad to see people actually interested in improvement are getting involved now.Jg og 2 21:14, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

The role at Wiktionary of SB or someone like him is indispensable. The number of cases of outright vandalism, low-quality contributions, and well-intentioned, but damaging user mistakes is huge. It is hard to do it in an error-free way without many, many more people being involved in patrolling - and even then mistakes will sometimes be made. It is even difficult to tell what is really a patrolling mistake. DCDuring TALK 22:01, 3 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Yes. When I first came here and had some perfectly valid edits reverted by him I was rather annoyed, but such are the perils of being an anonymous user. It is annoying, but nevertheless I'd rather lose the occasional few good edits in error (which will no doubt be recreated in time) than drown under the weight of bad ones. Equinox ◑ 22:15, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

Hardly. SemperBlotto could easily have attached the briefest of comments to his revert, even just a "make adjective, not noun." With even a tiny little bit of effort, a simple "like" or "related to" could have actually fixed it outright. Why make excuses for this person? The fact is he would rather get off wiping out an explained and necessary addition without so much as a word of justification. Had he even put the single word "adjective" into his revert, I would have fixed it myself. People like that are not "indispensible to the process." They are the reason so much of life here is so unpleasant. To people like SemperBlotto, who apparently have nothing constructive to contribute, it just feels good to piss on others as often as possible.Jg og 2 04:25, 4 July 2009 (UTC)


 * It is a matter of the economics of the time of volunteers. It is difficult to get folks to patrol, but many people believe they can make a contribution. Fixing an entry like this well will take a long time, probably hours. (We do have copyright to worry about.) There are thousands of contributions being offered in a day. Empirically, rejecting an entry that doesn't recognize the part of speech rarely leads to the loss of good contributions or good potential contributors. Minimally repairing a contribution might take five-15 minutes, but not yield a good entry. A would-be contributor will either go away or will persist, as you have. It actually takes quite a few edits before a would-be contributor is really making a net contribution. Various "nice" approaches are very time-consuming. The end result is that a demanding, cheap screen of a contributor's early edits is a sensible response. Knowledge of basic grammar is a reasonable test. DCDuring TALK 04:57, 4 July 2009 (UTC)

Collocations
I'm having some trouble confirming that there is much use that is clearly in reference to the social conditions as opposed to more specifically about literary aspects or the atmosphere and characters of Dickens works. There may be uses that suggest cruel, authoritarian, poverty-stricken, but the socio-economic element seems rarely present in the text itself.

Nouns
from COCA Dickensian + any noun
 * DICKENSIAN CHARACTERS	 	3
 * DICKENSIAN FACTORY 		2 	(institution)
 * DICKENSIAN CHARACTERS 	3
 * DICKENSIAN FACTORY 		2      (institution)
 * DICKENSIAN BARRACKS 		2 	(institution)
 * DICKENSIAN HOLIDAY 		2
 * DICKENSIAN NOVEL 		2      (literary)
 * DICKENSIAN OFFICES 		2 	(institution)
 * DICKENSIAN POVERTY 		2      (social)
 * DICKENSIAN TWIST 		2      {literary)
 * DICKENSIAN WORLD 		1      (social)
 * DICKENSIAN WORKHOUSES	 	1 	(institution)
 * DICKENSIAN WIT 		1      {literary)
 * DICKENSIAN VISION 		1
 * DICKENSIAN VILLAINS 		1
 * DICKENSIAN VILLAIN	 	1
 * DICKENSIAN VILLAGES 		1
 * DICKENSIAN TYPES 		1
 * DICKENSIAN TRAGEDIES 		1      {literary)
 * DICKENSIAN THING 		1
 * DICKENSIAN TEXT 		1      {literary)
 * DICKENSIAN TABLEAU 		1
 * DICKENSIAN STRUCTURE	 	1      {literary)
 * DICKENSIAN STREET 		1
 * DICKENSIAN STORY 		1      {literary)
 * DICKENSIAN SIGN 		1
 * DICKENSIAN SIDE 		1
 * DICKENSIAN SETTING	 	1
 * DICKENSIAN SERIES 		1      {literary)
 * DICKENSIAN SENTIMENTALITY 	1      {literary)
 * DICKENSIAN SCHOOL	 	1 	(institution)
 * DICKENSIAN SCENE 		1
 * DICKENSIAN REFERENCE 		1      {literary)
 * DICKENSIAN QUALITIES 		1
 * DICKENSIAN PUB 		1
 * DICKENSIAN PROPORTIONS 	1
 * DICKENSIAN PREDECESSORS 	1
 * DICKENSIAN PLOTS 		1      {literary)
 * DICKENSIAN PLACES	 	1
 * DICKENSIAN PLACE 		1
 * DICKENSIAN PATENT 		1
 * DICKENSIAN NURSING home 	1 	(institution)
 * DICKENSIAN CHAPTER	 	1      {literary)
 * DICKENSIAN BRICK 		1
 * DICKENSIAN NIGHTMARES		1
 * DICKENSIAN NIGHTMARE 		1
 * DICKENSIAN NAME 		1      {literary)
 * DICKENSIAN MISERY 		1      (poverty)
 * DICKENSIAN MILIEUS 		1
 * DICKENSIAN MEAL 		1
 * DICKENSIAN MANNER 		1      {literary)
 * DICKENSIAN LIST 		1      {literary)
 * DICKENSIAN LACKEY 		1
 * DICKENSIAN LABOR 		1
 * DICKENSIAN IMAGES 		1
 * DICKENSIAN IMAGE 		1
 * DICKENSIAN GHOST 		1
 * DICKENSIAN GENIUS 		1      {literary)
 * DICKENSIAN FATE 		1
 * DICKENSIAN FASHION 		1
 * DICKENSIAN BACKGROUND 		1
 * DICKENSIAN AUSTERITY 		1      (poverty)
 * DICKENSIAN ATMOSPHERE 		1
 * DICKENSIAN APPETITE 		1
 * DICKENSIAN AMBITIONS 		1      {literary)
 * DICKENSIAN /CATSKILL 		1
 * DICKENSIAN EXPECTATIONS 	1
 * DICKENSIAN EXCESS 		1      {literary)
 * DICKENSIAN DUSTHEAPS	 	1
 * DICKENSIAN DIGRESSIONS 	1      {literary)
 * DICKENSIAN DETAIL 		1
 * DICKENSIAN DESCRIPTIONS 	1      {literary)
 * DICKENSIAN DELIGHT 		1
 * DICKENSIAN DECENCY 		1
 * DICKENSIAN CULT 		1      {literary)
 * DICKENSIAN CROWD 		1
 * DICKENSIAN CHIMNEY 		1

TOTAL 	84

Adjectives
1 	 DICKENSIAN PORRIDGE-AND-DORMITORY orphanage	1     (institution) 2 	 DICKENSIAN OLD men				1 3 	 DICKENSIAN FRONT hall				1 4 	 DICKENSIAN BACK-STREET warehouse 		1 5 	 DICKENSIAN ASSISTANT warden			1     (authoritarian) TOTAL 	5

Other
Total 29