Talk:Empire of Lies

RFV discussion: December 2022–January 2023
"The United States". Is it real? If so, who uses it in what context? Equinox ◑ 19:25, 7 December 2022 (UTC)
 * IIRC it was "popularised" by Putin when the war started this year but it has a long track record of use by people to describe various places and things they don't like, including China, Russia itself in its current, Soviet and imperial forms, and (the earliest use I can find from a quick Google, from 1822) the Catholic Church. Dunno if it's attestable as a proper noun as such rather than as an SOP epithet. —Al-Muqanna المقنع (talk) 19:56, 7 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Note also that Putin's usage of the term was directed not just at the USA but at "the entire so-called Western bloc, formed by the United States in its own image and likeness, all of it is the very empire of lies" and that the official transcription of his remarks did not apply proper-noun-style capitalization to the term "империя лжи" (source: TASS, 24 February 2022) Voltaigne (talk) 20:51, 7 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Even if attested in some form, it would seem just a typical nonce figurative use of empire. DCDuring (talk) 05:33, 8 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Agreed, I would support deleting this term unless there's something particularly interesting about it. Ioaxxere (talk) 06:19, 8 December 2022 (UTC)


 * may be worth a comparison if we keep this and need to give context. Equinox ◑ 11:50, 8 December 2022 (UTC)
 * That raises a question in my mind. Is Great Satan a specific mythical figure, an epithet specifically applied (only) to the US, or is just a Satan that is great? DCDuring (talk) 14:02, 8 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Also, this seems a lot like Reagan's Evil Empire. DCDuring (talk) 14:07, 8 December 2022 (UTC)
 * It's not exactly a figure, on the Hajj there are three stone edifices representing the Devil which are traditionally stoned (see Wiki ), the "Great Satan" refers to the biggest one of those. —Al-Muqanna المقنع (talk) 14:14, 8 December 2022 (UTC)
 * How is the term Great Satan applied to real-world entries other than the US, if indeed it is? DCDuring (talk) 16:25, 8 December 2022 (UTC)
 * In English, as far as I can tell, it's pretty much exclusively associated with the US and, apparently in contrast to "Empire of Lies", it's used out of context with the reference implicitly understood (e.g.: "the fact that [Rushdi] published his outrageous reflections in English, the language of the Great Satan  is considered unforgivable" ), usually in Iranian or Islamist propaganda or people imitating it (e.g. "We stand alone against the Great Satan. The Arab world is afraid to challenge America", in Rizzi, The Phalanx Dragon, p. 192, a novel).
 * Chomsky uses it, e.g. here, in a more general sense, to mean a principal official enemy of any state, though this transferred sense doesn't seem common and is presumably derived from the one referring to the US. —Al-Muqanna المقنع (talk) 14:59, 9 December 2022 (UTC)


 * RFV-failed. AG202 (talk) 22:00, 31 January 2023 (UTC)