Talk:Kaffir

Kaffir or kaffir
It should either be capitalized or not, I got confused myself on this point and I edit here. So let's get together and build a consensus. WritersCramp 15:06, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

Deletion debate
Arabic. Wrong script. Any reason not to delete this speedily? Mglovesfun (talk) 12:57, 9 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Mglovesfun, are you suggesting removing the whole of the article for kaffir? If so why? It's been in Wiktionary since your friend (?) SemperBlotto apparently added it in July 2005. Admitedly there are many variants, e.g. Kafir.


 * Are you suddenly now keen to remove it so that it's history is also purged for some reason? Does this have anything to do with your (and SemperBlotto's) strange paranoia over the minor, though interesting and perfectly justifiable, |additional definition I tried to add for this word a short while ago, using the approved and respected method of citing an external source for my reference?

Hmmm. Emeraldicus 14:27, 9 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Yes, of course delete the Arabic section - but add a real Arabic entry (with this meaning) in the Arabic script. SemperBlotto 14:46, 9 December 2009 (UTC)
 * And is there really a distinction between kaffir: and Kaffir:. SemperBlotto 14:49, 9 December 2009 (UTC)


 * I can see there has been some longterm confusion as there appears to be two separate articles, one for Kaffir (with a capital "K") and the other for kaffir (lowevercase). SemperBlotto added the lowercase version in 2005 whilst Rm13 added the other entry the following March (2006).


 * If anyone is interested I have added an explanation and further details about my attempted (and swiftly reversed) contribution. You can read it (if they leave it there!) on SemperBlotto's discussion page, although even my comments have already been partly obliterated as it seems SemperBlotto wrongly assumes that the external link(s) I added to Kafir & Proud and Ummat al Kuffar were "spam" when they were not; in fact those pages each contain informal etymologies and linguistic definitions relevant to the article from which I correctly added the link.


 * I would welcome views and comments from other editors/users on this point and would request that for now both SemperBlotto and Mglovesfun restrain themselves (always assuming they are separate people) and desist from removing any more of my work for now.


 * I think it’s very important that Wiktionary is allow to develop both as an open, online dictionary and community without being high jacked by no doubt well meaning but perhaps also over zealous individuals. It's also important to leave these links - even if only on a discussion page, so that other editors can follow them and decide for themselves; Wiktionary is supposed to be a collaborative community not an oligarchy (let alone dictatorship)!

Thanks Emeraldicus 15:02, 9 December 2009 (UTC)
 * No offense Emeraldicus, but you crack me up. No just the Arabic section although as pointed out, what's the difference between the upper case and the lower case anyway? As you may have noticed, Arabic using the Arabic script, not the Latin one. Mglovesfun (talk) 16:29, 9 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Nonsense, deleted Arabic. Mglovesfun (talk) 19:21, 9 December 2009 (UTC)

Glad I "crack you up", Mglovesfun, but perhaps it indicates you're rather flaky? I know what that expression means (you're being friendly and saying I've amused you - just knew I'd come in useful for something one day ) but I always imagine it's very British, and generally only used by people from England, so I took a look at your profile to see if I was right.... your knowledge and love of Old French is interesting.

Anyhow, now we're so familiar can I ask if you're more comfortable with my proposed external links (for strictly etymological relevance, interest and significance) to both Kafir-And-Proud and Ummat-al-Kuffar, because I think they are more than worthy of reference in this context and I was planning to put them back shortly? (It would be nice to be in agreement rather than some petty dispute).

Incidentally, I think it's very wrong to have duplicate entries for the same word Kaffir and kaffir - obviously there should only be one and entering the other should simply redirect. Also, I'm fairly sure the generally accepted norm is "kafir" with a single "f" (obviously its from Arabic so only an approximation). Therefore perhaps, unless it's only a short (stub?) article explaining the African derivative of the Arabic word, then linking to the main article kafir maybe we should get rid of all of the variants and redirect the lot to a single place to avoid further tangential confusion?

Thanks Emeraldicus 20:54, 9 December 2009 (UTC)