Talk:Kyiv

Kiev vs Kyiv
Discussed at Beer parlour/2020/September. - -sche (discuss) 18:40, 19 September 2020 (UTC)

Discussed at Tea_room/2022/July and Tea_room/2023/January. Megathonic (talk) 07:32, 31 January 2023 (UTC)

False edit
User:Santiago Claudio added the pronunciation /kiːv/ under false pretenses using an edit summary of "undo" on the page Kyiv: []. This now-fashionable pronunciation appears to have been invented out of whole cloth by John McWhorter within the past month. Whether or not McWhorter is ˞User:Santiago Claudio or not shall be left up to the reader to postulate, but regardless, I shall revert this false edit. If this user wishes to continue to edit this page, this user should consider labeling their changes in an honest manner. Dylan Lainhart (talk) 15:55, 26 February 2022 (UTC)


 * S/he didn't use any edit summary at all: . &mdash; Fytcha〈 T | L | C 〉 16:13, 26 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Damn, my bad. I think I conflated the (undo) in parentheses with the edit summary. Not enough coffee? I feel terrible and I owe User:Santiago Claudio an apology.
 * I maintain that my reversion still stands, as no one has yet to offer any proof that this was a pronunciation in use before mid-February 2022. Dylan Lainhart (talk) 19:45, 26 February 2022 (UTC)
 * It's been common for some time. On Twitter I find people talking about (or calling for) it since at least 2013 (2014), the New York Times has a video with examples from US government officials in 2019, and Merriam-Webster was listing it by [//web.archive.org/web/20201113024603/https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/Kyiv 2020] (their notation ˈkēv is translated to IPA [//www.merriam-webster.com/assets/mw/static/pdf/help/guide-to-pronunciation.pdf here]; as late as [//web.archive.org/web/20170603074322/https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/kyiv 2017] they did not list it). We could consider even swapping which spelling is the lemma; Google's Ngram Viewer sadly doesn't track the past few years, but news coverage of recent events near-uniformly uses Kyiv. - -sche (discuss) 21:41, 1 March 2022 (UTC)
 * , if you saw the previous edits but not this last one, actually does owe you a nonsarcastic apology at this point for the great deal of needless (and inaccurate) vitriol from their initial post, however much they may have unspecified separate reasons to dislike and distrust Mr McWhorter. —  LlywelynII  03:18, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
 * I accepted Dlainhart's apology. Santiago Claudio (talk) 03:54, 31 March 2024 (UTC)

Category:English exonyms
Eh... no. No, it isn't. Kyiv is very pointedly the romanized form of a Ukrainian name. The only way it's an exonym is if you consider Ukraine properly Russian, Ruthenian, Tatar, Hunnish, Scythian, etc. or if you mistakenly think "exonym" means "anything not written in Cyrillic or in my single very most favouritest romanisation scheme".

If anything, we should be creating the separate category of Category:English endonyms to capture notable instances of uses of native forms of names as opposed to their more common exonyms. (Dumping all pinyin forms into it wouldn't be any more helpful or accurate than considering Wade–Giles or most Postal map forms exonyms when they were just a separate way of transcribing the exact same endonyms or dialectical endonyms, but there might be a few instances where it's clearly appropriate: Guangzhou in place of Canton, e.g.) — LlywelynII  03:10, 31 March 2024 (UTC)