Talk:Maine Coon

Origin of the Maine Coon Cat
Maine is the origin of this breed. "Maine" is part of this cat's name. This is for a reason:

Maine is its origin - not more broadly "America" or "New England" - just specifically MAINE.

Specifically native to the state of Maine
Maine is where the breed developed - in Maine - the place of its origin. Native means: occurring in nature, having origins in a particular area.

"Specifically native to Maine" means: having origin in Maine - being the place of origin.

The wording "was developed" is confusion. It "was developed" NOT.

The Maine cat developed naturally, out-doors, in the wild, in Maine. Maine is the origin.

Maine is where it developed naturally in local isolation where it was free from external dilution.

It is improper to say that the Maine cat "was developed" with the mistaken implication that the origin of the coon-cat breed was intentionally breed and selectively manipulated by people. They were not. They developed naturally, out-doors in the wild long before they appeared anywhere outside of Maine.

The Maine cat was recognized as a distinct breed of cat long ago and known as the "coon-cat" in the mid 1800s prior to the Civil War in recorded history and documented early descriptions of the Maine cat by a well known and celebrated Maine author who lived in that era prior to 1850.

The genetic base of the Maine cat was well established in Maine by the late 1700s long before there were any pedigrees, cat breeders, registries, cat clubs or even many people for that matter. In fact there were many more cats than people in rural areas. We remember back in the early 40's that there were about sixty wild cats on our remote farm (four miles from the nearest town) - so many that they were difficult to count. They were seldom seen in day-time but their eyes would all reflect/glare back at the lantern at once after dark from under the barns, chicken coops, and sheds. This occurred long before there were any roads, automobiles, or oil when people rarely traveled further than a horse could take them in a day.

Native Maine Coon Cats
The Maine cats changed little after the demise of the shipping industry so those that were found there before the Civil war can safely be called natives. The Maine Cat developed without interference by people in the small isolated gene pool in which their heritage with local cats was not diluted by other ordinary domestic cats as would have occurred in cities where there were many other cat breeds around.

A journal article was published about the coon-cat of the late 1800s stating: "... all of them come from Maine, simply for the reason that the breed is peculiar as yet to that State.” “Coon-cats have been recognized as a distinct breed in Maine for so long that the memory of the oldest inhabitant runs back to their beginning.” “You will find them in almost any village in that part of the world.”

Modern Cats
About two centuries after the breed was well-established and its characteristics well-defined in Maine, they were exported to other areas as pure, unadulterated, native coon-cats.

Offspring of these cats from Maine can now be found all over the world. In the 1970's the coon-cat became part of today's cat fancy and since then is being breed by experienced and inexperienced people everywhere. The "modern look" coon-cat of today has characteristics and features that are changed somewhat from the original, specifically native MAINE Coon Cat.

Specifically native Maine origin Maine Coon Cats still exist and are essential to the health and survival of the breed.

---4coons 16:35, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

Stop the back and forth
All this back and forth is counterproductive, let's leave it at the current version and discuss the proper definition on the talk page. I am going to protect the page as it is until some kind of consensus is reached by TALKING. - 18:32, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

Use of the wording "was developed" is improper and false
Consensus will not change the Maine Coon Cat. Natural Maine Coons will continue to be the way they are - regardless of consensus. The modern show cats will continue to change and perhaps become extreme to suit the owner, judges, and the politics.

A show cat "was developed" in Massachusetts and in other places too all around the world. However, to use the wording "was developed in Maine" with the implication that human breeding caused it to come into existence and become a Maine cat is very far from fact and reality. Of course some can claim that a particular show cat "was developed in Maine". However, that manipulation certainly would not and did not produce what was recognized as a distinct breed "that developed" in Maine hundreds of years ago. The use of "was developed" is improper and indeed very offensive to Mainer's regard for their Maine State Cat.

Let the facts speak for themselves
Unless anyone can cite and document how the coon-cat "was developed" and by whom (who also lived in Maine prior to the Civil War) and cite which breeds were used in the mating(s) that were used to create a coon cat - we would all like to know - then the present wiktionary definition is false and must be corrected by eliminating the wording "was developed".

--4coons 04:49, 16 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Your logic is flawed. We know that Stonehenge "was built" even if we don't know by whom, or what rock quarries were used.  Lack of information about how something happened does not make the fact that it happened false. --EncycloPetey 04:54, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

Don't agree. There certainly is evidence that Stonehenge "was built", and even evidence of what material was used, and evidence of how it is constructed. However, there is no evidence that the coon-cat "was developed" or even what it was developed from, or whether the results of such an experiment actually produced a coon-cat.

Please submit any evidence and facts that can help result in a correct definition. --4coons 05:30, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

Not good to protect a bad definition
Don't agree to: "let us leave it at the current version". It is better to remove the entire definition or the part that is in contention than to leave a definition which is improper or false. --4coons 05:05, 16 March 2008 (UTC)


 * I am not judging one way or the other, I left it as I found it, but 9 reverts in two weeks is ridiculous. Decide as a group and that will be the definition that ends up there. -  05:07, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

A distinct natural breed
The Maine Coon is a distinct natural breed. Use of the (generic) term "domestic" is confusion and must not be used as part of the definition. "Domestic" is the veterinary term used to classify cats of unknown heritage. The Maine Coon is certainly not of unknown heritage. The Maine Coon has been recognized as a distinct natural breed of Maine origin for centuries in recorded history published in the 1800s. --4coons 14:02, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

A distinct long-haired breed of Maine origin
The Maine Coon is a long-haired breed. "Long-haired" is an essential characteristic which needs to be added to the description. It is a long-haired breed that is distinct from other long-hair breeds such as Siberian, Norwegian, Persian, and domestic long-hairs of no particular definition. The Maine Coon is a long-haired cat of Maine origin that is a distinctly different breed from other long-haired cats from other places around the world. The uneven aspect of Maine Coon's long-haired, shaggy, uneven coat is one of the distinctions of the breed. At the nape of the shoulders the fur is very short. This sets off the neck ruff which is made of long fur all around the neck. The body fur gets gradually longer toward the rear of the cat to end in lengthy britches or fur bloomers behind the rear legs. The guard hair and insulating hair aspects of Maine Coon's long-haired coat are one of the distinctions of the breed, too. The fur and coat is made up of guard hairs that are glossy and somewhat coarse, and these are longer than the insulating hairs. The insulating hairs are satiny-soft. This especially warm fur type with protective guard hairs developed naturally in the State of Maine for protection against the harsh Maine winter climate of this northern coastal region. --4coons 16:22, 21 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Hi, I have many cat books including Maine Coon books, I believe the definition is correct. I wrote most of the Category:Domestic cats articles.  Although, many of them require further work.  See my User page for the list of work to do. Thanks WritersCramp 16:38, 21 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Why is this definition locked down ?? WritersCramp 16:42, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Seems to be because of frequent erroneous edits by the above user. SemperBlotto 16:46, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

I think it best to keep this page locked until we can figure out a solution. I apologize to 4coons for takings so long to get back to them on this. First of all, it should be considered that we are a dictionary, and cannot possibly include every bit of information (that's what Wikipedia is for, and it looks like they have a fine article on this cat). Secondly, domestic does not mean of unknown origin, it simply means an animal which is used by man, for a pet or a farm animal, etc. Cats are a bit borderline for this adjective, as they often breed in uncontrolled conditions, and quickly revert to feral states if released. However, the cat is known for being a pet cat, and so we should retain the word domestic. Finally, even given all the information you've presented here, I see no reason to change the definition. It notes that it's a natural breed, and that it developed in Maine, which is the primary thrust of what you're trying to say here. Yes, readers won't get the full gist of everything, but that's not what a dictionary is for. We have a link to the Wikipedia article where a reader can get more information. Finally, simply adding "specifically native to Maine" makes it seem as though the cat is only found in Maine," which is untrue. -Atelaes λάλει ἐμοί 17:53, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

- - - Hi again Atelaes,

We certainly agree that: “the cat is known for being a pet, …” It is first and foremost nice as a pet. So, “pet” is a key word and we can agree that the definition should contain “pet” somewhere.


 * Instead of the word pet, we use the terms domestic cat breed. Here are some definition examples, for your interest:


 * 1) American Bobtail
 * 2) American Curl
 * 3) American Keuda
 * 4) American Shorthair
 * 5) American Wirehair
 * 6) Asian Semi-longhair

WritersCramp 12:36, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

/ - - - Reply: If one accepts the wikipedia description that (they) "faced very severe winters in New England, where only the strongest and most adaptable cats survived... (and) developed into a large, rugged cat with a water-resistant, thick coat and a hardy constitution", then this describes the breed developing outdoors for generations. Its hard to imagine that the coon-cat would have developed its especially warm insulating hairs sleeping all winter indoors next to a warm fireplace and being described as a "domestic cat". Natural Maine Coons were feral barn cats, especially in those early times and places where there were more cats than people.

Two definitions are required to differentiate between the natural native cats and the modern show types where the phrase "domestic cat" could apply to the modern or show cats which are typically confined indoors. The words "natural" and "polydactyl" then should apply to only the real traditional Maine Coon first definition.

- - - end reply

/

But; before going further, thanks to Wiktionary for such a wonderful facility and the space for the definition of “Maine Coon”, and welcome to the many who will collaboratively contribute to the content of this project. The present definition is a beginning and will evolve to become definitive and precise once the experts become involved.

The definition is not correct.

Because this is a dictionary it is especially important to get the definition correct. It is not sufficient to rely on all the modern day books which have mostly all been published recently since the 1970s. The important references are those written in the earlier centuries. If statements are taken from books, the cites will help. The earlier writings are other writings and letters that do not appear in books.

Definitive factual reasons for change are given and detailed in this talk. The information that has been provided in this “talk” is for reminding the experts of the known published history facts as these experts begin to contribute to the content of this definition.

In reference to your comment: “… it looks like they (Wikipedia ) have a fine article on this cat …”, that article is at a start /draft stage that will need to be revised to remove nonfactual parts and conjecture as they are determined to be at variance with the published historical records. Some statements in that article should not be perpetuated.

The present definition does not say “it developed” as you stated. That is not what the present definition says. However, we can agree that “it developed” (naturally) in Maine. The present definition uses the phrase “was developed” which is not correct. It is improper to say that the Maine cat "was developed" with the mistaken implication that the origin of the coon-cat breed was intentionally breed and selectively manipulated by people. They were not. They developed naturally, out-doors, in the wild, long before they appeared anywhere outside of Maine. It is well-known (but not openly admitted) that the modern cats were not developed naturally, out-doors in the wild; and most modern cats were developed somewhere else.

You commented that: “[… adding “specifically native to Maine” (to the definition) makes it seem as though the cat is only found in Maine…]”. I agree with you that it does seem to say so. In fact, there actually are Maine Coons that are “specifically native to Maine”; and there are, also, those that are not. A journal article was published about the coon-cat of the late 1800s stating: "... all of them come from Maine, simply for the reason that the breed is peculiar as yet to that State.” While that was true back then, it is certainly not true now. Under the above talk topic = = Modern Cats = =,  I clearly state that the: “Offspring of these cats from Maine can now be found all over the world.” So, we agree. They are all over the place – not just in Maine.  This creates a significant problem for the definition.  There are natural cats and there are modern cats. Should they be called “New England Coons” or perhaps “American Coons” as others imply by saying they originated in New England or America? Certainly not.

However, this subject is a major source of contention between the vastly different parties. There are really two (2) definitions of the Maine Coon that are necessary due to there being two types. One type is the natural native cat (“it developed”) and the other is the modern cat that has been somewhat changed (“was developed”) by intentional breeding manipulation to achieve a particular result or objective. This certainly needs discussion and would benefit immensely from collaboration by subject matter experts. It is well-known that line breeding can and does (sometimes) dramatically change them. Much more on this later. It needs further discussion.

Don’t agree that we should retain the word “domestic.” What we really intend to say is that they are wonderful “pets” – not “domestic cat” which really doesn’t say what we mean. We want to say “pet”. Use of the (generic) term "domestic" is confusion and must not be used as part of the definition. "Domestic" is the veterinary term used to classify cats of unknown heritage. The Maine Coon is certainly not of unknown heritage. The Maine Coon has been recognized as a distinct natural breed of Maine origin for centuries.

Your discussion and contributions to the definition content are welcome. --4coons 04:22, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

Include Polydactyl in the Definition
There have always been a lot of polydactyl Maine Coons. The term "polydactyl" needs to be included in the definition. It was highly likely that a poly cat from Maine would be a Maine Coon centuries ago. The original poly incidence was estimated to be around 40%. It was (and still is) a distinct visible indicator of its natural, original and native Maine heritage.

However, modern show types are rarely polys. The show type "breeding" ignores the Maine Coon Polydactyl Standard and has culled this vast poly portion of the original gene pool (characteristics and features) from the show types.

These modern types do not have the visible (polydactyl) evidence of being real natural Maine Coons. They are somewhat changed from the traditional MC. So, there should be two dictionary definitions that distinguish between those that are natural and the show types that are not natural. The term "polydactyl" needs to be included in the definition. --4coons 09:56, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

False definition: "flowing ringed tails"
Coon does not refer to "flowing ringed tails" and is not in any way descriptive of or proper in the definition of the Maine Coon.

Coon-cats come in very many colors and patterns, the majority of which bear absolutely no resemblance whatsoever to a raccoon. That is conjecture and folklore which is wrong, misleading and which does not belong in a dictionary definition.

The white Maine Coon has no such "ringed tail". There is no visible "ringed tail" on black coons. Neither would the grays, blues, smokes, or creams be reminiscent of or resemble a raccoon. "Ringed tails" are not a defining characteristic feature of Maine Coons. --4coons 17:04, 27 March 2008 (UTC)


 * First issue is stop putting p[triple space]/p between paragraphs, it is not required. With regard to the sentence in the definition;


 * "The word Coon refers to their flowing ringed tails reminiscent of a raccoon."

This is correct, here is one citation: Verhoef, Esther. (2006). "The Complete Encyclopedia of Cats." Rebo International. ISBN 9036614961

WritersCramp 10:36, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

/ Not correct. The book says its a myth - not a fact. Myths are not a definition. Anyone can simply walk over to a white Maine Coon and see for themselves that it does not have a "ringed tail". Quotation from "The Complete Encyclopedia of Cats" by Michael Pollard, ISBN 1-40544-388-X, p222 says: "... brown tabby. This and the plume-like tail are similar to the coloring of the raccoon, the tree-dwelling mammal common across North and Central America, and no doubt played a part in the naming of the breed as well as giving rise to the raccoon ancestry myth." There is no mention of any such "flowing ringed tails". / --4coons 13:35, 28 March 2008 (UTC)


 * I agree their ancestry with raccoons is folklore, it is not genetically possible, but the name "Coon" was added because of their flowing ringed tails, end of story. WritersCramp 02:28, 29 March 2008 (UTC)


 * No matter what is decided about it, it shouldn't be in the definition (as it is irrelevant to what "Maine Coon" means). It sounds like it should be part of the === Etymology === of the word, but if not then it is encyclopedic information and should be on Wikipedia instead. (Same goes for the "this is the largest breed of cat", which should be worked into an adjective in the first clause if it is mentioned at all) Conrad.Irwin 10:53, 28 March 2008 (UTC)


 * No, 'Coon' is part of the word "Maine Coon" and it explains part of the word i.e. why it is there. I have provided a citation for it. WritersCramp 01:04, 29 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Although you have provided a citation, it is not one which is verifiable online. The MCBFA does not have a breed characteristics page up, but they do have a colors page which, graphically, disputes the requirement of ringed tail as an element of the breed. The CFA Maine Coon breed standards do not require tabby colorings, but does include the flowing tail. My opinion is the ringtail description should be excised. - Amgine/talk 01:38, 29 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Not to mention that it isn't a necessary part of the definition. I think we should chop off everything after the first full stop and call it a day, let pedia muck around with the rest. -  01:40, 29 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Fellows, the issue is not whether MCs come in a variety of colours, I agree they do, the issue is why the word "Coon" is part of the word, which is in the definition, complete with a citation on the talk page. WritersCramp 02:24, 29 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Agreed. Even if not all Maine Coons have ringed tails, if some of them did, and those some earned the name "Coon" (note that I am not asserting this to be the case, as I know nothing about this cat) the information is pertinent to a dictionary entry.  -Atelaes λάλει ἐμοί 04:26, 29 March 2008 (UTC)


 * The source of the name is in dispute, including amongst those most familiar with the breed, as stated on the CFA page for the breed. Since it is controversial amongst the experts, I don't believe en.wt can honestly purport one or another source for the name, nor is it the position of en.wt to be an etymological authority for the naming of cat breeds sfaik. - Amgine/talk 18:32, 29 March 2008 (UTC)


 * The origin of the name, whatever it turns out to be, will still not belong in the definition, it will belong in an etymology. It should not, whatever it is, be in the definition line.  Nor should any information regarding this breed's size relative to other cats, which is encyclopedic information.  The current definition is that this is a breed of cat which originated in Maine.  Everything else (which is being disputed) doesn't even belong in the definition line. -  20:32, 29 March 2008 (UTC)


 * In this case, the description of why "Coon" is included in the name is part of the definition. WritersCramp 01:46, 30 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Not really. Why a word is spelled/constructed the way it is is etymology, what a word means is definition.  It doesn't mean "A cat from Maine which looks like a Coon". -  01:50, 30 March 2008 (UTC)


 * As stated above this sentence defines why the "Maine Coon" is called a "Maine Coon", it comes from "Maine" and some of the cats have Coon like tail.


 * "The word Coon refers to their flowing ringed tails reminiscent of a raccoon." citation: Verhoef, Esther. (2006). "The Complete Encyclopedia of Cats." Rebo International. ISBN 9036614961 —This.


 * I wasn't contending that the information wasn't factual, merely that it wasn't pertinent to the definition. We aren't defining why the name is Maine Coon, we are defining the term Maine Coon, this is an important distinction.  Define "Maine Coon", add the origin of the term to the Etymology section. -  00:09, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

Agree the origin of the term "coon" should be added to the rac-"coon" Etymology section. --4coons 01:39, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

Place of origin is essential to the definition
The place of origin is essential to the Maine Coon definition. The word "Maine" in the term "Maine Coon" is essential to the distinction that this cat came from "Maine" - it "originated in Maine." Therefore, the definition must contain the place of origin. Reference: A journal article was published about the coon-cat of the late 1800s stating: "... all of them come from Maine, simply for the reason that the breed is peculiar as yet to that State.” “Coon-cats have been recognized as a distinct breed in Maine for so long that the memory of the oldest inhabitant runs back to their beginning.” “You will find them in almost any village in that part of the world.” --4coons 01:39, 3 April 2008 (UTC)


 * The place of origin isn't essential, it is irrelevant. A definition describes the meaning of a word, not the origin of the word.  I feel like I have said this about five times in the course of this discussion. -  01:50, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

The place of origin is essential to the meaning. It is not definitive just to say its "a cat" for there are many cat types. It is not definitive just to say it is "longhaired" for there are many longhaired types. It would not be correct to leave out "Maine" from the term and define just "Coon" all by itself. That wouldn't be correct and would be confusion if some would prefer it to be, say, a "Philadelphia Coon" instead.

The word "natural" in the definition has very definite meaning relating to the breed. Maine is where it developed naturally in local isolation where it was free from external dilution, where it was able to develop (over the centuries) very unique features and characteristics that are distinctily different from other cats. (ie. it developed in a specific place called Maine.) It is naturally native to Maine. It is the Maine State Cat. It is called a Maine cat. So, the place of origin has very definitely has meaning that gives distinct and specific meaning to the definition. Place is essential to the definition. --4coons 02:28, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

Its a cat - not a raccoon
"Flowing ringed tails" is descriptive of a raccoon - not a Maine Cat. Such "ringed tails" are not in the breed standard of the Maine Coon Cat. Its a cat - not a raccoon. Remove it. --4coons 00:05, 3 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Yes, but even if not all cats have the ring tail, some do, and these some might be responsible for the name. Do you have evidence to the contrary, or an alternate explanation as to why it has this name?  -Atelaes λάλει ἐμοί 00:08, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

The alternate myth is: the rac-"coon" (surely?) must have gotten its name from the Maine Coon. The all white Maine Coon is conclusive visible evidence to the contrary. Is the white coon not a Maine Coon just because it doesn't have rings or look like another animal?


 * What happened to getting rid of the other 2 sentences and just sticking with 'A semi-longhair, natural domestic cat breed that originated in Maine.' Simple solution, and other information can go on wikipedia. Nadando 00:17, 3 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Well, if the breed acquired its name because of the tail, that it pertinent etymological information (and should thus be in the etymology section). However, I think that that proposal for the definition line is a good one.  -Atelaes λάλει ἐμοί 00:19, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

Do not agree. The rac-"coon" tail is pertinent etymological information for a raccoon - not for a Maine cat. The breed did not acquire its name because of the raccoon's tail. On the contrary, the rac-"coon" (likely?) acquired its name because of the coon-cat's tail. --4coons 01:10, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

The present mythical definition is thus rejected. Agreed, the simple solution/proposal of just sticking with 'A semi-longhair, natural domestic cat breed that originated in Maine.' is accurate --4coons 01:10, 3 April 2008 (UTC)


 * That is not the case. The word raccoon is attested before this breed came into existence, and apparently comes from Powhatan.  However, the Wikipedia article seems to think that the cause for the inclusion is indecisive, citing both "raccoon" and a surname "Coone," so I think that unless we put the various possibilities forward, we should simply leave the etymology out.  However, I think it in poor taste to call the etymology mythical (certainly no more so than arguing that raccoon is derived from the cat), simply disputed.  -Atelaes λάλει ἐμοί 02:23, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

There is no such: "arguing that raccoon is derived from the cat". The statement above says its just an: "alternate myth". --4coons 10:06, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

The book says its a myth. "The Complete Encyclopedia of Cats", ISBN 1-40544-388-X, p222 calls it: "... the raccoon ancestry myth." Perhaps its time to take issue with those (including Wikipedia articles) which print error lest all worry that just printing it does not make it so. Finally, we agree: "we should simply leave the etymology (of raccoon) out." So, the definition with the raccoon folklore removed,: "A semi-longhair, natural domestic cat breed that originated in Maine. This is the largest breed of domestic cat." --4coons 09:42, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

I personally think that 4coons is a troll trying to stir up trouble. The editor has already been advised not to use p /p and continues to use it and is provided a citation confirming why 'Coon' is used in the name and continues to ignore it. WritersCramp 10:25, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

On the contrary, a citation is provided that says its a myth. "The Complete Encyclopedia of Cats", ISBN 1-40544-388-X, p222 calls it: "... the raccoon ancestry myth."

/ These collaborators agree that "size" doesn't belong in the definition. "... it shouldn't be in the definition (as it is irrelevant to what "Maine Coon" means). It sounds like it should be part of the === Etymology === of the word, but if not then it is encyclopedic information and should be on Wikipedia instead. (Same goes for the "this is the largest breed of cat", which should be worked into an adjective in the first clause if it is mentioned at all) -Conrad.Irwin 10:53, 28 March 2008 (UTC) "Nor should any information regarding this breed's size relative to other cats, which is encyclopedic information ... doesn't even belong in the definition line." -theDaveRoss 20:32, 29 March 2008 (UTC) "What happened to getting rid of the other 2 sentences and just sticking with 'A semi-longhair, natural domestic cat breed that originated in Maine.' Simple solution ... " -Nadando 00:17, 3 April 2008 (UTC) Exaggerated large size claims may be due to the effects of castration that is known to result in significant weight gain. -4coons Finally, we agree that size should be left out. So, the definition with the size statement removed,: "A semi-longhair, natural domestic cat breed that originated in Maine. /

Prankster - User:4coons
Just to confirm, User:4coons is a prankster, please block their account, thank you. WritersCramp 00:57, 4 April 2008 (UTC)


 * What evidence are you basing this claim on? -Atelaes λάλει ἐμοί 01:03, 4 April 2008 (UTC)


 * The accuser is a false accuser.


 * There are none of these things whereof WritersCramp accuse User:4coons, neither can he prove them.


 * A false accuser shall not be unpunished, if the witness be a false witness, and has testified falsely against his brother; then shall you do unto him, as he had thought to have done unto his brother.


 * The accuser's own mouth does condemn himself and WritersCramp may be ashamed. A false witness tells lies and can not be trusted as a contributor to a dictionary which relies on the truth.


 * The false witness added the last two sentences without consensus after the request for concensus was posted. The majority is against the last two sentences. There is no concensus on the last two sentences. They were added in violation of the request for concensus. Undo to remove the last two sentences that were added without concensus.

4coons 13:24, 10 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Alright, alright you two. There's no need for this type of argument.  Both of you are liable to be blocked for incivility, so let's drop this particular component of the discussion.  -Atelaes λάλει ἐμοί 17:57, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Genetic Diversity
The Maine Coon has broad genetic diversity.

Genomics and DNA typing at the UC Davis Veterinary Genetics Laboratory show the Maine Coon among the breeds having the ”greatest genetic diversity” - not narrowly related to a single breed (such as a "Turkish Angora".) - http : //  faculty. vetmed. ucdavis. edu/Faculty/lalyons/Sites/FIS. htm This definition is for a Maine Coon - not a "Turkish Angora". It is misleading to advert to some other breed while the purpose is to define this breed (a Maine Coon.) Reference to "Turkish Angora" is confusion. 4coons 17:21, 4 May 2008 (UTC) 4coons

Cute
Maine Coons are so cute. Ready Steady Yeti (talk) 00:22, 29 May 2014 (UTC)