Talk:Nahatʼeʼiitsoh bikéyahdę́ę́ʼ biyázhí neiyéhé

RFV discussion: April 2021–February 2022
I have brought up an RFV entry similar to this just for Navajo names for foreign canids (archived at Talk:mąʼii bikʼiizgi hadzíjiní and Talk:mąʼii bighą́ąʼgi hadzíjiní).

more to come as I find them... --Корсикэн-Уара (юзэр толк) 20:34, 8 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Nahatʼeʼiitsoh bikéyahdę́ę́ʼ biyázhí neiyéhé brushtail possum
 * jádí biniiʼtsʼózí hartebeest
 * tłʼiish yighání honey badger
 * tábąąstííntsoh łibáhígíí grey seal
 * Tó Wónaanídi Bilagáana Bikéyahdę́ę́ʼ ayání ''wisent'
 * adijiłii bíchį́į́hnézí echidna
 * ayánítsoh bighą́ą́ʼaskʼidígíí gaur
 * ałtʼoʼígíí biyęęzhii yiłchíhígíí monotreme
 * bideeʼtsʼinígíí Bovidae
 * bijáád noodǫ́ǫzii okapi
 * bikétłʼááh hoolzhólígíí tylopod
 * bisóodi bizęęs dį́įʼii warthog
 * bisóodi bíchį́į́h nineezí aardvark
 * béégashiitsoh naʼałkǫ́ǫ́ʼígíí manatee
 * béégashiiʼilí yak
 * bíchį́į́h naatsʼǫǫdí tapir
 * bįįh danilínígíí Cervidae
 * bįįh łikizhígíí fallow deer; chital
 * chį́į́hnézí nahatʼeʼígíí elephant shrew
 * chʼosh yighání aardwolf
 * dahsánítsoh crested porcupine
 * dlǫ́tʼą́ʼí meerkat
 * dlǫ́ǫ́ʼ bitseetłʼooígíí chinchilla
 * dlǫ́ǫ́ʼ ntsxaaígíí capybara
 * dlǫ́ʼii bitéél halgaií beech marten
 * dlǫ́ʼii yił aheełtʼéhii noodǫ́zígíí banded mongoose
 * dlǫ́ʼii yił aheełtʼéhígíí ''mongoose'
 * dlǫ́ʼiitsoh naalzheehígíí fossa
 * dlǫ́ʼiitsoh áłtsʼózígíí genet
 * dlǫ́ʼiitsoh łikizhígíí civet
 * dlǫ́ʼiiłtsooí Japanese marten
 * dzeeh łikizhígíí sika deer
 * díʼdikii dik-dik

Okay, here's more: That's just the mammals. Birds will have to be a separate RFV... --Корсикэн-Уара (юзэр толк) 14:52, 9 April 2021 (UTC)
 * ghą́ą́ʼnaakiskʼidii Bactrian camel - note that ghą́ą́ʼaskʼidii camel is attested in this translation of Matthew 3
 * ghą́ą́ʼnoodǫ́ǫzii pacarana
 * hakʼaz ayání muskox
 * hakʼaz bįįh 'reindeer, caribou
 * hakʼaz gah Arctic hare
 * halgaigi tééh łį́į́ʼ quagga
 * hodíłchʼil ayáníchilí anoa
 * hodíłchʼilgi dlǫ́ʼiitsoh Asian palm civet
 * jádítsoh noodǫ́zígíí bongo (antelope)
 * kááʼtsʼiní ditłʼooígíí big hairy armadillo
 * kʼiiznoodǫ́ǫzii paca
 * mágí bitseeʼ noodǫ́zígíí lemur; I'm also taking this opportunity to do an RFV for my entry Mágí Bitseeʼ Noodǫ́zí Bikéyah Madagascar which I created based on the nv.wiki entry
 * mósí ałchiní bitsiiʼtʼąhígíí flat-headed cat
 * Naakaii Łizhiní Bikéyahdę́ę́ʼ nahatʼeʼii springhare
 * Naakaii Łizhiní Bikéyahdę́ę́ʼ tsétah dibé Barbary sheep
 * naaldlooshii bikéshgaan hólónígíí ungulate
 * naalkʼįhiitsoh colugo
 * naalʼeełídaaʼí platypus
 * nahatʼeʼii jáádnézí jerboa
 * nahatʼeʼiitsoh yázhí pademelon
 * naʼatsʼǫǫsí bizaʼazis hólóní antechinus
 * ndilnaʼii sloth
 * náshdóítʼą́ʼí łikizhígíí serval
 * shash bitéélgaígíí Asiatic black bear
 * shash ndilnaʼii sloth bear
 * shash yázhí sun bear
 * shash łigaígíí polar bear
 * shash łizhin dóó łigaígíí panda
 * Shádiʼááhdę́ę́ʼ bisóodi diʼilígíí''
 * Shádiʼááhdę́ę́ʼ gahniiʼí ntsxaaígíí mara
 * Shádiʼááhdę́ę́ʼ niłchiis grison
 * Shádiʼááhdę́ę́ʼ tábąąstííntsoh South American sea lion
 * Shádiʼááhdę́ę́ʼ tłʼízí llama
 * Shádiʼááhdę́ę́ʼ tłʼízíʼilí alpaca
 * Shádiʼááhdę́ę́ʼ łéʼétsoh bitseeʼ ádinígíí agouti
 * shą́ą́ʼnahalghałí hyrax
 * tsintah bįįhchilí chevrotain
 * tsintah bisóoditsoh giant forest hog
 * tsinlátahgi dlǫ́ʼiitsoh binturong
 * tsinlátah shash łichíʼígíí red panda
 * tsinlátah mąʼii olingo
 * tsin yilátah ayání giraffe
 * tábąąstííntsoh sea lion
 * tábąąh mąʼii bíchį́į́h nineezí coati
 * tábąąh béégashii water buffalo
 * tábąąh ayání African buffalo
 * tsétah gah pika
 * tsétah bįįhchilí pudu
 * tábąąstííntsoh łizhin dóó łigaiígíí ribbon seal
 * tábąąstííntsoh łibáhígíí grey seal
 * tábąąstííntsoh bíchį́į́htsohígíí elephant seal
 * tábąąstííntsoh bighaaʼ díłchʼilígíí fur seal
 * tábąąstííntsoh bideeʼ hólónígíí walrus
 * tééh hóyáaniitsoh beluga whale
 * tééh hóyáanii bíchį́į́htsahí narwhal
 * łóóʼtsoh dóó tééh hóyáanii Cetacea
 * tééh łį́į́ʼ - rfv-sense: "zebra"; by extension: rfv-senses: "zebra" and "hyena" of tééh''
 * tééh łééchąąʼí łikizhígíí spotted hyena
 * tééh łééchąąʼí noodǫ́zígíí striped hyena
 * tééh łééchąąʼí ditsʼozígíí brown hyena
 * tééh łééchąąʼí hyena
 * tłʼízíʼilí Angora goat
 * tłʼízí bideeʼ yisdizígíí markhor
 * tó wónaanídę́ę́ʼ nahashchʼidí Eurasian badger
 * tó wónaanídę́ę́ʼ hazéí bíchį́į́hnézí tree shrew
 * tó wónaanídę́ę́ʼ dzeeh red deer
 * tó wónaanídę́ę́ʼ dlǫ́ʼiiłkizhii marbled polecat
 * tó wónaanídę́ę́ʼ dlǫ́ʼii European polecat
 * tó wónaanídę́ę́ʼ dibé ałchiní mouflon
 * tééhoołtsódiichilí pygmy hippopotamus
 * RFV-sense: "hippopotamus" of tééhoołtsódii''
 * wóláchííʼ yiyání and wóláchííʼ yiyání - anteater
 * wóláchííʼ yildeełítsoh giant anteater
 * wóláchííʼ yildeełíchilí silky anteater
 * wóláchííʼ yildeełí łizhin dóó łigaígíí tamandua
 * wóláchííʼ yildeełí bikágí ntłʼizí pangolin
 * yéigo ałhoshii dormouse
 * yadiizį́įgo ayání gerenuk
 * ńdíshchíitah dlǫ́ʼii pine marten
 * łį́į́ʼ ałchiní - rfv-sense: "Przewalski's horse"
 * łį́į́chilí Shetland pony
 * łóóʼtsoh łizhin dóó łigaígíí orca
 * łóóʼtsoh dootłʼizhígíí blue whale
 * łóóʼtsoh bitsiiʼ dikʼání sperm whale
 * łóóʼtsoh bighą́ą́ʼ yílkʼidígíí humpback whale
 * note the Navajo names for various marine mammals can be found in this source (seemingly) independent of Wikipedia and Wiktionary, but I doubt this passes CFI
 * łéʼétsoh diwozhí moonrat
 * łéʼétsoh beeniʼíhoniitaahígíí guinea pig
 * User:Corsicanwarrah This section was so massive it literally caused a module error from all the template usage it added. How do you expect humans to follow up on all of these? Chuck Entz (talk) 15:13, 12 April 2021 (UTC)
 * What about starting with the attestion of any of these? If the first is attested, the provided source might attest more. And then one could also ask for better RFVs like asking for an additional "and this term is not in source".
 * As has come up before, 1) Navajo is an WT:LDL, with very little in print, and extremely limited resources available online; 2) the largest online corpus is probably the NV WP; 3) one of the most active admins and editors there has self-reported in the past as a second-language speaker of Navajo with community ties to other speakers (User:Seb az86556, see also thread at Talk:nahatʼeʼii); 4) no one involved in the recent EN Wikt discussions of the Navajo terms speaks the language.
 * None of us are equipped to make any sensible judgment on the validity of these terms. We can research whether these terms appear online, and whether they appear in whatever print media to hand.  However, as non-speakers, we are unlikely to know where else to look.  In the past, Μετάknowledge mentioned Young and Morgan, whose descriptions of Navajo were some of the seminal works describing the language in depth in English; I note that their works are decades old, and much has changed in the meantime.  Our stated goal is to document language as it is actually used, but none of us know enough to say.
 * I am deeply concerned at any wide-scale removal of Navajo entries without at least involving someone who speaks Navajo. Move them to an appendix if you must, but I cannot support just deleting them when we do so from a place of ignorance.  ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │Tala við mig 00:55, 28 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Eirikr, why are you pinging me if you're going to continue ignoring both me and the CFI? We already went over this at Talk:mąʼii bikʼiizgi hadzíjiní. You already know that this isn't about "validity", but about attestation, and you know that the creators of Navajo Wikipedia have been open about their practices in coining new terms to describe organisms which had not before been written about in Navajo. We don't have an appendix for protologisms any more, and I don't see the point in creating a new one just for Navajo. —Μετάknowledge discuss/deeds 01:35, 28 April 2021 (UTC)
 * @Μετάknowledge, I actually don't know "that the creators of Navajo Wikipedia have been open about their practices in coining new terms to describe organisms which had not before been written about in Navajo". If you have a link to a discussion where the Navajo Wikipedia editors say as much, I'm all ears, as it were.  ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │Tala við mig 18:18, 28 April 2021 (UTC)
 * : I'm really taken aback that you didn't know that, after years of discussions. Just look at w:nv:Choyoołʼįįhí bichʼįʼ yáshtiʼ:Stephen G. Brown/archive3, where you can see Stephen coin the word Mííanmáa, where Seb is happily surprised to discover that łeeyiʼ bitiiní, which he had thought he coined (he says "I pulled that out of my arm") and turns out to be attested, and other adventures in coining terms for nv.wiki. —Μετάknowledge discuss/deeds 01:33, 29 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Thank you for the link. I haven't had had occasion to view Stephen's NV WP page much (perhaps ever?), so this is not anything I've previously been aware of.
 * I'm disappointed in what I see there. I would hope for, and had mistakenly understood that there was, more dialog with members of the Navajo-speaking community, reaching out and asking folks what things are called, rather than non-native speakers deciding by themselves what might parse well.
 * In light of this new (to me) information, I withdraw my opposition and strike my comment above. Thank you again @Μετάknowledge for the link.  ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │Tala við mig 18:49, 29 April 2021 (UTC)
 * So just nuke everything? I've googled some of them and gotten nothing but Wiki projects and mirrors. The link posted by Metaknowledge is pretty damning evidence that they're just making stuff up over at that Wiki. &mdash; Fytcha〈 T | L | C 〉 00:19, 28 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Considering that some of these might actually be attestable (like the example that Meta mentions above), I'm not sure if the "nuke them from orbit" approach would be appropriate.  That said, I recognize that it's a lot to go through, and we (the EN Wikt community) currently lack in Navajo-language expertise.  I'm not sure how best to proceed.  ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │Tala við mig 00:58, 28 January 2022 (UTC)
 * : You can nuke everything. Contrary to what Eirikr said, this list was compiled by hand based on looking for animal names that wouldn't be known to Navajo people and then checking them against Google, so the vole example doesn't apply here (and isn't in the list). —Μετάknowledge discuss/deeds 03:24, 28 January 2022 (UTC)
 * @Μετάknowledge, thank you for the clarification., nuke away.  :)  ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │Tala við mig 21:05, 28 January 2022 (UTC)

RFV-failed. Well that was boring. I also suggest having a quick look at the entries, , as well as the derived terms in , , ,  , , ,. &mdash; Fytcha〈 T | L | C 〉 01:49, 29 January 2022 (UTC)


 * Re:, that's arguably SOP anyway, as + .  ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │Tala við mig 07:02, 3 February 2022 (UTC)