Talk:Sieg Heil

Translation, German meaning
First, by native german speaker: German "Heil" is NOT related to english "to hail". Its meaning is much closer to "to heal" / "be healthy". It's a greeting for healthiness. --Arilou (talk) 23:03, 23 November 2023 (UTC)

Sieg Heil
rfv'd sense: German: "hurrah!". I don't think so. DCDuring 20:47, 4 December 2007 (UTC)


 * That’s the meaning that I have always understood it as. —Stephen 21:50, 4 December 2007 (UTC)
 * It don't think that view is supportable. The following might convince you.
 * Take a look at one of your German texts or dictionaries or check out a German-language website.
 * Take a look at the citations for the English.
 * Sieg = victory. Imagine saying something in English with the word "victory" in it. Can you come up with a phrase that means something as wimpy as "Hurrah!"?
 * Take a look at the derivation of the english word hail.
 * Find some further g.b.c. hits.
 * DCDuring 22:17, 4 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Take a look at Sieg Heil, the Wikipedia article, too. DCDuring 22:23, 4 December 2007 (UTC)


 * I have spoken German for over 40 years. This is the first time I ever heard of this meaning "hail, victory." To me, it just means hurrah, but with a strong National Socialist connection. "Hail, victory" looks like something a machine-translation program like Babelfish would produce, or that a young, inexperienced, beginning translator might write. On Wikipedia it has "Hail to Victory", but that is a very stilted and weird thing to say. When we used to say Sieg Heil, it didn’t have such a ridiculous ring to it. "Hail to Victory" is all right in an etymology, as a literal translation, but it’s not the meaning that I have ever encountered before. —Stephen 22:31, 4 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Then the Germans have really gone crazy, making it a criminal offense to say "hurrah!" in this particular way. DCDuring 23:13, 4 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Kind of like how the swastika used to be a neutral peace sign but is now a symbol of hate? Globish 00:38, 5 December 2007 (UTC)


 * It's more like banning a symbol that included a sword. It wouldn't be entirely neutral to start with. They haven't banned all uses of "Heil", just two. DCDuring 01:46, 5 December 2007 (UTC)


 * This is the first time I hear that it should have the general meaning of expressing enthusiasm. The word Sieg ("victory") clearly refers to war or battle. I always thought this term was coined by the Nazis even if it resembled existing expressions (e.g. "Berg Heil" for miners), which is the reason why they made its usage illegal. IMO the article should be kept, but with a non-ambiguous explanation of its meaning. If the claim is true that the expression is or was commonly used in non-Nazi contexts, please provide convincing references. --Zeitlupe 01:57, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

I agree with Stephen...and the 'pedia article only says it literally means "Hail to Victory". Perhaps there is no good English equivalent and we would be better off defining it along the lines of, "Idiomatic expression of enthusiasm, support etc. now associated with Nazism". Widsith 11:39, 5 December 2007 (UTC)


 * I would have to challenge that it was used that way when it was still legal to use the phrase in Germany in public or for political purposes. Are you saying that's how it is used now? Where? In Germany? How could anyone tell since the use in writing is so proscribed? The question is not whether it means or has meant "Hail Victory" and - with that meaning - was associated with Naziism. That much is 100% clear. The question is whether such a term ever meant "hurrah!" or "go team!" All slogans chanted in a crowd become mere group vocalizations without much semantic content to participants and even observers, but their meaning is what motivates their use. Doesn't a dictionary have to be about semantic content? Even interjections differ in their meanings. DCDuring 12:08, 5 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Mmm, I don't entirely agree, the "mere group vocalizations" are not without semantic content, it's just not necessarily the same as the component parts. Sieg Heil means "hail to victory" like au revoir means "until we see each other again".  It's a crucial part of the etymology, but not a very good or useful translation/definition.  Widsith 10:14, 6 December 2007 (UTC)


 * I rewrote the usage note based on what I read in the German Wikipedia, and marked the sense "hail, victory" as obsolete, since its use is forbidden by law. I also seriously doubt the existence of the second sense in German . So unless someone confirms that he/she knows of it being used in a German-speaking country, I will proceed to delete it during the next couple of weeks. Hekaheka 07:00, 30 March 2008 (UTC)


 * I have changed the tag to "archaic" from "obsolete", because it is readily understandable notwithstanding its illegality under some circumstances and in some geographies and its poor taste in most contexts. Perhaps it really needs a tag something like . DCDuring TALK 09:17, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

Deleted the disputed sense as there was no support in the end. As there is an English entry for "Sieg Heil", used that as "translation" for the German phrase, kept "Hail, victory!" as literal translation. I don't think anyone would really say that in English. Hekaheka 21:52, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

Maybe you should know that in some germanic related languages /dialects regions the greeting with "heil" was widespread....heil (name"of person) was the same value (weight) as for moslims "salam ) and was the meaning"all well to you/good things/health and so on.Shalom (name of person) comes close.my parents (both born in the 1910's used to greet their relatives with"heil brother/sister".today you can still hear it in some remote  /rural / traditional small villages in flanders (belgium),friesland(netherlands),north near the german/dutch border.

German etymology
What's the German etymology? What does it literally mean, how is the phrase composed syntactically? As for the English "literally "Hail, victory!"", "meaning roughly "Hail Victory!"": -Ludo M. (talk) 21:31, 16 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Is it short for Sieg und Heil (Victory and Hail) similar to Heil und Sieg? (postcard)
 * Is it short for Heil dem Sieg[e] (Hail to Victory) or rather dem Sieg Heil (to Victory Hail)? (book with Sieg, Sieg, Heil dem Sieg (Victory, Victory, Hail to Victory), book with Heil dem Sieger! Heil dem Sieg!, book with Heil dem Siege des römischen Volks! (Hail to the Victory of the Roman People!))
 * Is it a wrong segmentation of Sieg! Heil!? (book with Sieg Sieg! Heil Heil! Hallelujah!)
 * Is it wrong for Sieg heil as another form of heiler Sieg but which sense is strange?
 * Is it formed in (wrong) analogy to greetings like Petri Heil (St. Peter's Hail), Weidmanns Heil ([a] Hunter's Hail) which already became syntactically doubtful in Gut Heil (lit. Good Hail), Berg Heil (lit. Mountain Hail), Ski Heil (lit. Ski Hail)?
 * Is Sieg a translation of Latin Victoria (Victoria) and Greek Νίκη (Nike)? If so, how is it used? As an address for Sieg, Heil [Dir] (Victoria, Hail to Thee), or an imperative for Sieg, [gib uns] Heil (Victoria, give us Hail)?
 * Is victory addressed, or as Victory personified (like Victoria) and addressed? But wouldn't that in German be Heil [Dir], Sieg or Sieg, Heil [Dir] with comma?
 * Is it a listing and short for Hail and Victory? But in German that would be Heil, Sieg.


 * No, not like all that. You're not personifying and addressing Sieg. When you say it, you're greeting the person whom you are addressing (perhaps your neighbor or a taxi driver) with the word Heil ("hi there"). But in order to add pizzazz and verve and to churn up the old political and racist juices, you add Sieg (victory, superduper). So you're not simply saying "Hello," you're saying "Super-Hello!" Not unlike greeting someone with FTA or for the win. —Stephen (Talk) 04:47, 27 June 2018 (UTC)

English alternative form
Is the English alternative form of the greeting/phrase (and not of the verb) or even  (with s often capitalised as it's the beginning of a sentence)? -80.133.105.103 22:54, 26 June 2018 (UTC)


 * Yes. Most commonly written Sieg Heil in English, but also as sieg heil or even sieg-heil (which, naturally, would have the s capitalized at the start of a sentence). —Stephen (Talk) 04:29, 27 June 2018 (UTC)

RfC en
1. The entry includes this quote: In Fascist Italy, the people spoke Italian, hence it's a mentioning of. Likewise it's more likely a mentioning of. Hence there should be brackets (parameter brackets=on): 2. "translating [...] as "salvation [to] victory" on the model of ": That lacks a source. In "Heil Hitler" (likewise in "Heil Dir/dir", "Heil, Kaiser, Dir/dir" etc.), which could be translated as "salvation [to] [somebody]", it begins with Heil. So the "on the model of" part doesn't fit, and it instead sound like some folk-etymology.

RfC de
" [...] developed into the so called ": That lacks a source. WP doesn't support that; it doesn't state what came first and what later (specific arm-raising, "Heil Hitler" or "Sieg Heil").

RFV discussion: March–June 2024
For the English term and this part of the definition: "used in the Third Reich during the Nazi era". In the Third Reich, the people (usually) spoke German. Additionally, the 1971 quote with ''"Sieg Heil! Sieg Heil! Sieg Heil!" at the Nazi demonstrations, or "Du-ce! Du-ce! Du-ce!" in Fascist Italy'' seems to be a mentioning of like it's. So at the very least, brackets should be used (parameter brackets=on): --06:04, 12 March 2024 (UTC)
 * The def seems wrong for the 1991 and 95 quotes. The speakers are not literally Nazis saluting Hitler, but comparing someone to them (Hasidic Jews (for their opposition to gay rights) and Hubert Humphrey (for his support of the Vietnam War), respectively.) CitationsFreak (talk) 01:50, 13 March 2024 (UTC)
 * fixed CitationsFreak (talk) 02:05, 13 March 2024 (UTC)


 * I don't think the fact that people were usually speaking German when they used this "in the Third Reich during the Nazi era" is an issue; compare Confucius being defined as "An influential Chinese philosopher" regardless of the fact that he didn't speak English (or how we can use "mentions" to determine what arrondissement some particular place, e.g. Los Cayos, is in, to input into that entry's definition; we only need uses to prove the term is used). That the chant was "used in the Third Reich during the Nazi era" is trivial to verify. - -sche (discuss) 16:12, 16 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Confucius was an influential Chinese philosopher (ca. 551 – ca. 479 BC). Nothing wrong with that. Stating that was used before ca. 500 (or even ca. 1500) AD however would be wrong. The (New) English language isn't that old.
 * To state that was "used in the Third Reich during the Nazi era" gives two information: The English term was used around 1933–1945 (time) in Central Europe (location). But was it? (WT:CFI.) Maybe "My Struggle" by Adolf H. was published in a (Nazi) German city like Paris [1940–1944] in that time? Or was something like "The Fuehrer's Face" (USA, 1943) counted as a such usage? But that movie is propaganda, includes code-switching and no real usage from the Third Reich.
 * If wasn't used in 1933–1945 in Central Europe, it must be changed somehow. E.g.: The incorrect line could simply be removed. Or the information could be given in a correct form in the etymology section: the English term was borrowed from, which was used since the 1920s in Central Europa.
 * --19:48, 18 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Re "To state that was "used in the Third Reich during the Nazi era" gives two information: [...]": that seems like a mistaken assumption to me. The English definition of what "Sieg Heil" is correctly states what "Sieg Heil" is: it is a chant which was used in Nazi Germany, and later elsewhere (by neo-Nazis, etc), just like the definition of Confucius states who Confucius was. - -sche (discuss) 21:13, 18 March 2024 (UTC)


 * RFV-resolved? - -sche (discuss) 05:38, 14 June 2024 (UTC)