Talk:Spannungsbogen

"The self-imposed delay between when one begins to desire something and when one attempts to achieve or acquire it." Looks like that definition was lifted from the novel "dune". I'm not sure that it has the same (or any) meaning in the real world.


 * My take is that Herbert (and other people) took one of the possible English translations ("arc of tension") literally instead of figuratively. So a word that means "sequence of events that gives rise to suspense" got to mean "the drawing of the bow" / "tension of the bow string" instead. Which then they further interpreted figuratively as "delayed gratification". But there's already a perfectly good German word for that, "belohnungsaufschub".

The Dune definition may or may not be right, as a cursory Google search reveals multiple definitions of the word, all that don't concern Dune relating to tension or competition. One could say, however, that the Dune definition refers to a tension between desire and action, and as German is full of single words with layered meanings, I think Frank Herbert's usage warrants inclusion. It might be worth noting that the term shows up on the German Wikipedia several times, I think with relation to suspense (I don't speak German, so this is mostly conjecture).

MidnightGeranium 15:44, 24 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Inasmuch as Dune is a work of fiction projecting a time many millennia distant, it's certainly possible that the referenced "ancients" are still in the future relative to the present day, and that the given definition is not yet applicable...new figurative meanings for words can evolve fairly rapidly compared to a working timescale of 20,000 years.....


 * "This spirit of self-denial is essential to Mr. Taylor's outlook. He has found a wonderful German word for it, Spannungsbogen, which he defines as the self-imposed delay between the onset of desire and its eventual fulfillment. This is the spirit in which to approach this book. With the exercise of a little Spannungsbogen, you won't need to rush out and buy some of the tools it recommends, like a Hart Framer hammer, a yellow nylon stringline or a De Walt cordless drill. Just reading about them and looking at Rich Iwasaki's delicious photos is enough. At least until you've turned the last page."
 * http://www.nytimes.com/1996/11/11/books/hammering-a-nail-as-an-art-not-an-act-of-terror.html?scp=1&sq=Spannungsbogen&st=cse --Gwern 15:52, 26 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Dear Gwern,
 * Thank you for your explicit clarification of the figurative expression 'span the bow'. It is found in the short excerpt of Thomas Mann's novelette 'Death in Venice'  This fiction is one of the selected forty pieces which appeared in the Everyday Handbooks with the title The Writer's Book.
 * It is a book on practical advice by experts in every field of writing presented by the Author's Guild, edited by Helen Hull, and published by the publisher Barnes & Noble, Inc., New York.
 * Upon permission from Thomas Mann, certain passages were selected from this novelette, which comment directly on the problem of the artist in European civilization during the years which preceded and foretold the two world wars.
 * When reading the excerpt of the novel and the expression "span the bow" appears in a sentence, I was utterly in the dark, lost and stuck like in the vast ocean for sometime not being able to understand what Thomas Mann was writing to convey in the sentence about the protagonist, the writer, Aschenbach. I then started on my journey to search for the meaning of the expression from all sources from various hardcopy to all online dictionaries on Google but my efforts were futile.  Nonetheless, I did not give up and repeatedly continued with my search with still more fervour to read almost anything and everything I could get on the meanings on span and bow with the two words conjoined and split from topics, pictures, images and all available materials on Goodgle.  Finally, I found your talk on Wikipedia, and I am finally elated that my efforts finally bear fruit with your explanation in Wikipedia.
 * Following is the extract of the passage from the excerpt of the novelette where the expresssion span the bow is used.
 * And so the new impulse which thus late and suddenly swept over him was speedily made to conform to the pattern of self-discipline he had followed from his youth up. He had meant to bring his work, for which he lived, to a certain point before leaving for the country, and the thought of a leisurely ramble across the globe, which should take him away from his desk for months, was too fantastic and upsetting to be seriously entertained.  Yet the source of the unexpected contagion was known to him only too well.  This yearning for new and distant scenes, this craving for freedom, release, forgetfulness-they were, he admitted to himself, an impulse towards flight, flight from the spot which was the daily theatre of a rigid, cold, and passionate service. That service he loved, had even almost come to love the enervating daily struggle between a proud, tenacious, well-tried will and this growing fatigue, which no one must suspect, nor the finished product betray by any faintest sign that his inspiration could ever flag or miss fire.  On the other hand, it seemed the part of common sense not to span the bow too far, not to suppress summarily a need that so unequivocally asserted itself.  He thought of his work, and the place where yesterday and again today he had been forced to lay it down, since it would not yield either to patient effort or a swift coup de main.  Again and again he had tried to break or untie the knot-only to retire at last from the attack with a shiver of repugnance.
 * Wikipedia is a good platform for discussion, source of information and for clarification of doubts 2404:E801:200E:1215:FCC2:F1B:EBA6:B4A5 17:45, 21 April 2023 (UTC)

BurungNasar 21:12, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

In real-world German, 'Spannungsbogen' has only one meaning: A sequence (literally 'arc'='Bogen') of events in a movie, play or other work of art that creates suspense or tension (Spannung='tension, suspense').

The translations given are completely bogus. Granted, 'Spannungsbogen' might conceivably mean all that, but it doesn't.

spannungsbogen extra thing
i have reason to believe that the word is also used to describe the tension between the arches in a church. i had checked with a swiss friend of mine who described it as such. it was over 5 years ago and i maybe mistaken.

Mark's thought: It is the Tension that is felt at the end of drawing a Bow (arc), and the releasing of the Bow's potential energy that would then thrust the arrow through the space-time continuum. The desire is to hit a target. The will of the archer put the arrow into the bow, drew the string back (to the end where full potential is realized), and is held there. THAT is spannungsbogen. The Span of the Bow.

The self imposed restraint of the desire for a goal, and the reaching out for it finally after self imposed restraint is gone, and the potential is now realised in the flight of the arrow to it's intended target, or goal. The object of the desire is now captured, because restraint was well used; as an axis for judgement. It allowed the archer to question, "What is this thing I desire? Why do I want it?  What am I if I achieve it?"

Symbols used here from Dune:

End of a drawing - "Any road followed precisely to its end leads precisely nowhere. Climb the mountain just a little bit to test that it's a mountain. From the top of the mountain, you cannot see the mountain"


 * Mmm, no, nothing to do with that. —Stephen 07:01, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

Stephen, your argument is dismissive in it's nature, and it's brevity lacks conviction. You need to delve deeper into the meaning, no matter what expertise you have in linguistics and typesetting, and other disciplines you have devoted enormous time, energy and effort to. Experts are are a very dangerous breed...

Experts and specialists lead you quickly into chaos. They are a source of useless nit-picking, the ferocious quibble over a comma. The generalist, on the other hand, should bring to decision-making a healthy common sense. He must not cut himself off from the broad sweep of what is happening in his universe. He must remain capable of saying: "There's no real mystery about this at the moment. This is what we want now. It may prove wrong later, but we'll correct that when we come to it." The generalist must understand that anything which we can identify as our universe is merely part of larger phenomena. But the expert looks backward; he looks into the narrow standards of his own specialty. The generalist looks outward; he looks for living principles, knowing full well that such principles change, that they develop. It is to the characteristics of change itself that the generalist must look. There can be no permanent catalogue of such change, no handbook or manual. You must look at it with as few preconceptions as possible, asking yourself: "Now what is this thing doing?"

My example has EVERYTHING to do with that. The self imposed tension IS the point. I mistyped the subject on purpose. It is not the "Span of the Bow" it is the "Tension of the arc" My purpose was to draw out some little thinking, inferiority minded weakling, who would be dismissive, and walk himself into a mistake. This is ALSO a tenant of Dune. Make you move, but know your purpose.

Thank you Stephan, for helping me fulfill a little victory.


 * My answer may have been dismissive, but it was correct. —Stephen 12:17, 25 September 2009 (UTC)


 * But there's nothing to back up your dismissive answer, Stephen. Do you have a reason?  On the face of it, your response simply seems contrary for the sake of being contrary.  If you have insight, please share.  Personally, the literal translation he provides appeals to common sense.  The image of a drawn bow resonates with "having something in your sights" which definitely suggests desire and waiting for the perfect opportunity to claim the target. This is also called 'suspense' and 'tension', which is often used to describe scenes/plots in plays, films and books.  The German wikipedia page for Suspense uses the term 'Spannungsbogen' where we would use 'tension'.  Tanderson 19:33, 2 July 2011 (UTC)
 * But that's getting things backwards. The German term describes the arc of suspense. Arc is a characteristic of suspense, not the other way round. The image of a DRAWN bow has nothing to do with it. It describes the course of suspense - increasing first, and then released at the end. It has nothing to do with a physical bow. Even less so than a rainbow. --2A02:8106:258:3A00:4924:A1C3:D23F:F46E 01:05, 5 December 2021 (UTC)

"Experts and specialists lead you quickly into chaos. They are a source of useless nit-picking, the ferocious quibble over a comma. The generalist, on the other hand, should bring to decision-making a healthy common sense. He must not cut himself off from the broad sweep of what is happening in his universe. He must remain capable of saying: "There's no real mystery about this at the moment. This is what we want now. It may prove wrong later, but we'll correct that when we come to it." The generalist must understand that anything which we can identify as our universe is merely part of larger phenomena. But the expert looks backward; he looks into the narrow standards of his own specialty. The generalist looks outward; he looks for living principles, knowing full well that such principles change, that they develop. It is to the characteristics of change itself that the generalist must look. There can be no permanent catalogue of such change, no handbook or manual. You must look at it with as few preconceptions as possible, asking yourself: "Now what is this thing doing?"" <-- This response was lifted word-for-word out of Children of Dune. Come on man, if you want to rip someone off in an argument, at least use source material that you're not busy discussing. 67.8.93.121 00:19, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

RFV
See Requests for verification archive/2012. - -sche (discuss) 02:45, 29 March 2012 (UTC)