Talk:Swiss

Swiss
"Of […] or pertaining to […] the Swiss language"? —Ruakh TALK 23:57, 3 January 2008 (UTC)


 * There is a "language" called Swiss German, which is not the same as the German as spoken by the Swiss, nor the same as Alsatian though it is also an Alemmanic "dialect". It's a valid definition, but whether it should be called a "language", "dialect", or something else is not an easy question to answer.  It is not mutually intelligble with standard High German. --EncycloPetey 00:00, 4 January 2008 (UTC)


 * (1) A minor point, but according to that article you linked to, Swiss German is the same as the German spoken by the Swiss, as opposed to Swiss Standard German, which isn't. (2) Is "Swiss" ever an adjective meaning "Of or pertaining to Swiss German"? (3) If that's what was meant, why do we have "the Swiss language" rather than "Swiss German"? —Ruakh TALK 00:14, 4 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Not so minor a point. I have created an article Swiss German. The term is used imperialistically to include, 1., all Alemannic, 2., just the group of those languages spoken in Switzerland (which may be spoken in areas immediately adjoining), or, 3., any of them individually. Not much literature in them, but Swiss authors include elements from those languages in their writings, probably for color. I have heard people use the word "Swiss" referring to the spoken Germanic language: "The Germans I was travelling with couldn't understand him when he spoke Swiss to the shopkeepers." "He gave up trying to become a Swiss citizen the third time he failed his Swiss language exam." (2 senses of Swiss.) DCDuring TALK 01:51, 26 January 2008 (UTC)


 * I'm not a native English speaker, so I won't delete the entry saying that the word "Swiss" is used for (the language) "Swiss German". However, I'm a Swiss German speaker, and in my opinion, the entry must be wrong. There are several things that need to be distinguished:
 * a. The Swiss variant of standard German, which only has few differences from the German and Austrian variants (mainly vocabulary, e.g. parkieren instead of parken, and of course pronunciation). It is one of the official languages of the Swiss Confederation (federal government) and of a majority of the Swiss cantons. We circumscribe it as "schweizerisches Hochdeutsch" or something similar. I think in English it is: "Swiss standard/high German".
 * b. The many Swiss German dialects that are barely written (except recently in an informal context, i.e. mainly by young people in short messages and emails) and that don't have any official grammar or orthography. In German it is "Schweizerdeutsch"; in English I have mainly heard "Swiss German".
 * c. The three other languages spoken (and written) in Switzerland: French, Italian and Rumantsch - all of them official languages in at least one canton and in the confederation (only partially for Rumantsch).


 * Therefore, it is not at all reasonable to just use the word "swiss" to refer to one of them - no one would ever know which one is meant. There is no such thing as "the Swiss language".
 * The first example DCDuring gives seems to be a typical misunderstanding, as explained. The second example sounds to me as if the person who said it actually meant "the exam in one of the swiss languages". Of course, if you want to become a citizen of Geneva (and therefore of Switzerland), you'll not need to speak (Swiss) German, but French.
 * Conclusion: If there is no English native speaker who is convinced that I'm wrong, I'd strongly suggest to delete the entry.  --Don Cristobal 16:38, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

RFV failed, sense removed. —Ruakh TALK 23:20, 6 March 2008 (UTC)