Talk:Without

Request for verification
An area of an old town that is outside of the settlement's historic boundaries or town walls. Hard to find citations. DCDuring TALK 20:00, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Not in BNC. DCDuring TALK 20:07, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
 * This is used, in combination, as part of several city parish names for parts of an existing parish that has grown beyond the old city boundaries. But I don't think it exists by itself. SemperBlotto 21:33, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Do any specific examples of city or parish names it is paired with come to mind? Is it used with a space after a name, hyphenated, closed? Throughout UK? North? Midlands? Is it dated? Used in shop names? DCDuring TALK 23:00, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Example: Wokingham Without. Equinox ◑ 08:37, 18 June 2009 (UTC)


 * OK. It is used. In that use doesn't seem to me to be a proper noun. Any more than "White" "River" or Junction" in White River Junction. It seems to be a capitalized post-positioned adjective derived in its application from the the phrase "beyond the walls" or "beyond the boundaries" or something similar. Except for its being unusual (outside the UK, anyway), I don't see a reason for it to appear as a capitalized entry. If the conjectural etymolgy seemed correct it might warrant a separate etymology at [[without]].
 * Could it the used alone? "On Sundays after Church, we like to stroll out to the Without?" It is then like the multi-local use of "the City" to indicate the local urban center. It is very hard to cite this, so someone familiar with its use should use their knowledge to find some citations if it is real. DCDuring TALK 13:08, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
 * No, it's more like a postfixed adjective, as you suggest. Equinox ◑ 15:19, 20 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Unless we get some contrary evidence, that's what it will be. DCDuring TALK 15:56, 20 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I added one citation for "Wokingham Without". I can't find any other town that uses it. Equinox ◑ 19:58, 10 January 2010 (UTC)


 * Deleted. Equinox ◑ 14:09, 3 April 2010 (UTC)