Talk:at the hands of

Deletion debate
Request to delete sense #2. IMO the first sense covers the second one adequately. Tooironic 19:39, 5 January 2010 (UTC)


 * The usage example, if it reflected actual usage, would warrant a different sense. The sense I am aware of would not allow one to win "at the hands of a competitor". One could only lose at the hands of a competitor. DCDuring TALK * Holiday Greetings! 19:49, 5 January 2010 (UTC)

Yes, delete 2nd definition; confusion created by usage example shows why, since it implies that the competitor alone deliberately orchestrated the outcome. (You can substitute "by" or "through the agency of" for "at the hands of"). --SarahC. 16:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Deleted though as far as I can tell it's just plain wrong, not redundant. For the reasons DCDuring explains above. So it should have been originally listed at RFV, yet after nearly a full year on the grounds it's just a pure error, and 12 months of having a pure error is 360 days too many for my liking. Mglovesfun (talk) 14:42, 5 December 2010 (UTC)