Talk:attentat

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This page was Transwikied from Wikipedia. Below is the edit history for the Wikipedia article.
 * Time: 2005-06-09T08:38:37Z - By: w:User:63.203.206.121
 * Time: 2005-06-09T08:41:44Z - By: w:User:Wetman - Comment:

Wikipedia Edit History
This page was Transwikied from Wikipedia. Below is the edit history for the Wikipedia article.
 * Time: 2005-06-09T08:38:37Z - By: w:User:63.203.206.121
 * Time: 2005-06-09T08:41:44Z - By: w:User:Wetman - Comment:
 * Time: 2005-06-09T19:54:21Z - By: w:User:Dmcdevit - Comment: Transwikied to Wiktionary: see Talk:Attentat

Not an English word
It's a French word. Any French word can of course be used in English as long as it is italicized and the person using it is trying to sound clever or educated. All occurrences of the word I can find in English are direct paraphrases from either French or German. This is not an English word, not even a loanword, in any meaningful sense of the term. --Dbachmann (talk) 08:00, 16 April 2012 (UTC)

In a sense, the English word does exist, since the 1580s or so, but it is spelled attempt. --Dbachmann (talk) 08:44, 16 April 2012 (UTC)
 * I'd recommend an RFV. If it fails, it can go to RFD. —Angr 09:17, 19 April 2012 (UTC)

RFV-failed sense

 * 1) An act of political violence or terrorism, especially a political assassination.
 * 2) * 1919, Congressional edition, Volume 7607, U.S. G.P.O.
 * At this point the meaning of 'attentat' should be observed. In the German Dictionary of Morwitz, the following definition appears: 'Attentat, premeditated outrage; premeditated attempt on anyone's life.'
 * 1) * 2005, Peter Wolfe, Like Hot Knives to the Brain: James Ellroy's Search for Himself, Lexington Books (2007), ISBN 978-0-7391-2002-6, page 216:
 * But the sitting president first had to die. A hit was scheduled for 18 November 1963 in Miami with an unwitting right-winger targeted for the blame; orchestrating the attentat as a conservative plot would help the mob pry their casinos away from Castro.

RFD discussion: March 2013–April 2014
Should the legal senses be combined? The definition in the 1848 quote appears to combine the elements of both. — Pingkudimmi 11:34, 1 March 2013 (UTC)
 * One definition says attentat is any appealed (i.e. claimed to be wrong) lower-court holding/ruling/whatever. The other say it's any wrong (and therefore appealed) lower-court holding/ruling/whatever. I'd venture a guess that only one of those is correct, but have no idea which. (Both might be, though.) Of course most citations won't help distinguish which meaning is correct, but careful citation-finding/reading could help. (I haven't time now, I'm afraid.) &#x200b;—msh210℠ (talk) 17:35, 1 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Hmm. It could be that they are both describing the same thing, with the one sense being an objective one meant by a disinterested observer, and the other being what is meant by the appealing lawyer, who in argument would be claiming wrongness. It does sound somewhat abstract though. — Pingkudimmi 13:27, 2 March 2013 (UTC)


 * I'll ping User:BD2412 to see if he has any insight — or legal dictionaries with insight ;) — on the matter... - -sche (discuss) 01:26, 11 February 2014 (UTC)
 * This one is a bit archaic - I have not come across it before, that I recall. bd2412 T 13:18, 11 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Update: This word is not in any recent edition of Black's Law. bd2412 T 14:40, 12 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Century Dictionary c. 1914 has 3 legal senses including the two we have. On their faces, our two definitions are not semantically equivalent, nor are Centurys. Keep'. DCDuring TALK 15:57, 12 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Also, current literature on international law makes abundant reference to the attentat clause in extradition treaties. Some of its current relevance has to do with its possible role in providing legal protection to those who have committed politically motivated crimes. Such a term is obviously derived from the third sense in our entry. I don't know whether that the sense in attentat clause is identical to any of the sense we have or that it exists apart from its use in attentat clause. DCDuring TALK 15:57, 12 February 2014 (UTC)

Kept, clear lack of a consensus to delete. bd2412 T 19:21, 9 April 2014 (UTC)

RFV discussion: April–October 2012
-Atelaes λάλει ἐμοί 12:09, 19 April 2012 (UTC)
 * English only. Wikipedia article is actually a redirect. Mglovesfun (talk) 12:19, 19 April 2012 (UTC)


 * RFV-failed. - -sche (discuss) 19:17, 1 October 2012 (UTC)