Talk:camus

RFV discussion: May 2017–January 2021
Tagged but not listed. - -sche (discuss) 17:24, 1 May 2017 (UTC) As for Horatius, it does depend on the edition and camo could be less common than Cadmo. quid césso ire ad eam? em, praésto est camo† collúm gravem. . quid cesso ire ád eam? em, praesto ést: camo collúm gravem. [...] eis ADNOTATIONUM COROLLARIUM quod infra sequitur contexui. quid césso ire ad eam? em praésto est : em (vel iam) collúm grauem. deicere de saxo civis aut tradere Cadmo?"
 * L&S: "Perh. a kind of collar for the neck, Non. p. 200, 16 (Trag. Rel. v. 302 Rib.)." Maybe that's the source for it, and maybe in another dictionary it's without the "Perh.", or maybe it's coming from L&S but with ignoring the "Perh." which should abbreviate "Perhaps". -84.161.7.226 21:55, 2 May 2017 (UTC)
 * "Perh." means perhaps in L&S.
 * Dictionaries:
 * L&S: "Perh. [= perhaps] a kind of collar for the neck, Non. p. 200, 16 (Trag. Rel. v. 302 Rib.)."
 * L w/o S: "a curb, used as an instrument of torture: civīs tradere camo, H. dub. [= doubtful]"
 * Gaffiot: "carcan : *Acc. Tr. 302."
 * Georges: "Strafwerkzeug für Sklaven u. Verbrecher, Acc. tr. 302. Hor. sat. 1, 6, 39."
 * Based on this it should rather be a yoke (frame around the neck) than a necklace (jewelry worn around the neck).
 * The works mentioned by the dictionaries:
 * Nonius Marcellus, De compendiosa doctrina, page 200, line 16f. In: Noni Marcelli compendiosa doctrina. Emendavit et adnotavit Lucianus Mueller. Pars I, Leipzig, 1888, p. 295f.:
 * Collus masculino Accius Epigonis:
 * 16 Epigonis Me; epigono C. – 17 equidem illud camo idem quod κάμπτω olim putaveram. sed ne sic quidem sententia satis facilis et commoda. vulgo ita explicatur, ut camus sit κημός, et significet, quod exemplo caret, vinculum collare. propius a vero existimo catellae (cf. pg. 199 l. catellae) vocabulum latere et hausta quaedam, quibus octon. iamb. impleretur, ut puta: quid césso ire ad eam? eam praéstost. et catélla (ablat.) habet collúm gravem.'' nam interdum in hoc metro caesuram neglegi notum. illa quin de Eriphyla dicta esse videantur non intercedo. at pessime puto factum, quod Epigonos Accii eandem cum Eriphyla habuit fabulam Ribbeckius duasque res diversissimas Thebarum expugnationem et Eriphylae caedem una tragoedia contineri existimavit.
 * Nonius Marcellus, De compendiosa doctrina, page 200, line 16f. In: Nonii Marcelli de conpendiosa doctrina libros XX onionsianis copiis usus edidit Wallace M. Lindsay. Volumen I. LL. I–III, argumentum, indicem siglorum et praefationem continens, Leipzig, 1903, p. 294:
 * Collus masculino Accius Epigonis (302):
 * 16 epigono (etiam F3)
 * Otto Ribbeck, Tragicorum latinorum reliquiae, Leipzig, 1852, p. 148 (L. Attius [= Lucius Accius], Epigoni, XIII (9), verse 302):
 * Iám quid cesso ire ád eam? en praesto est: én camo collúm grauem!
 * 302 iam om. libri  em praesto est camo libri hem praesto est: camo en Vossius hem praesto est: en camo Grotius Bibl. crit. nou. IV
 * Otto Ribbeck, Tragicorum latinorum reliquiae. Secundis curis. Volumen I., Leipzig, 1871, p. LV and p. 176 (L. Attius, Epigoni, XIII (9), verse 302) (similary at wikisource):
 * [p. VII and IX] PRAEFATIO
 * [p. XLIX] Attium et debebam et volebam ACCIVM scribere. Nam hoc fuisse poetae nostri nomen fidem facit cum frequentia, immo constantia huius potissimum scripturae in testimoniis, tum Pisaurensium titulorum auctoritas, ubi  A c c i i  apparent, maximi illa momenti, si probabiliter statuitur Accianum (nam sic apud Hieronymum dicitur) fundum, qui iuxta Pisaurum fuit, a patre poetae colono possessum et filio traditum fuisse. [...]
 * [p. LV] V. 302 violentius Buechelerus eiecto camo ad senarii modos constrinxit:
 * [p. 176] [Séd] quid cesso ire ád eam? em praesto est: cámo [uide] collúm grauem!
 * 302 sed om. libri  em praesto est, om. uide, libri hem praesto est: camo en Vossius hem praesto est: en camo Grotius Bibl. crit. nou. IV
 * Quintus Horatius Flaccus, Satirae = Sermones, liber I. In: Horace Satires, Epistles and Ars poetica with an English translation by H. Rushton Fairclough, 1942, p. 78f. (similary at wikisource and thelatinlibrary):
 * "tune, Syri, Damae aut Dionysi filius, audes
 * "Do you, the son of a Syrus, a Dama, a Dionysius,d dare to fling from the rocke or to hand over to Cadmus citizens of Rome?"
 * d These are common slave-names.
 * e i.e. the Tarpeian rock from which criminals were sometimes thrown by order of a tribune. Cadmus was a public executioner.
 * -80.133.123.15 04:16, 20 May 2017 (UTC)


 * In an edition with English translation, Attius/Accius' "camo" is interpreted as necklace or neckband. So there are (a) Horatius with the doubtful "camo" (a punishment device) or "Cadmo" (proper noun) and (b) Attius/Accius with the doubtful "camo" (a punishment device or a necklace or neck-band). It's doubtful, but should be cited. -84.161.32.202 10:42, 31 May 2017 (UTC)
 * RFV passed. — Mnemosientje (t · c) 10:43, 11 January 2021 (UTC)