Talk:conservative

The English word has a sense "cautious, restrained", or something along these lines. Could you please add that? Particularly since related words in other European languages tend not to have this sense (except as anglicisms).

RFV discussion: January–February 2016
Rfv-sense "(US, politics) Relating to the Republican Party, regardless of its conservatism." --WikiTiki89 00:34, 6 January 2016 (UTC)


 * Isn't this just use as synonym for Republican Party? - Amgine/t&middot;e 17:00, 6 January 2016 (UTC)
 * I doubt that it is a good use of time to look for unambiguous cites of this. DCDuring TALK 18:04, 6 January 2016 (UTC)
 * And I doubt that such unambiguous cites exist, which is why I nominated it here. --WikiTiki89 18:09, 6 January 2016 (UTC)
 * What about this one from "Strictly Right: William F. Buckley Jr. and the American Conservative Movement":
 * Then in December, Ohio congressman John Ashbrook decided to mount a primary challenge to Nixon. Ashbrook was a card-carrying conservative: an old YR buddy of Bill Rusher's, ...
 * Typically "card-carrying" refers to political parties, but there is no "Conservative" party in the US. Also YR probably stands for Young Republican, and Nixon was obviously in a Republican primary.  I think Amgine is right that conservative: is sometimes used as a synonym for Republican:. - TheDaveRoss 16:59, 7 January 2016 (UTC)
 * "Card-carrying" means that he's an official member of some organization(s). You cut off the sentence too early, since further on it mentions more organizations, one of which even has "conservative" in its name: Then in December, Ohio congressman John Ashbrook decided to mount a primary challenge to Nixon. Ashbrook was a card-carrying conservative: an old YR buddy of Bill Rusher’s, a member of the Draft Goldwater Committee, a former chairman of the American Conservative Union.. But even then, a "card-carrying conservative" only means that the organizations that he is a member of are evidence of his conservativism, and not that his conservativism is defined by his membership in the organizations. --WikiTiki89 17:14, 7 January 2016 (UTC)
 * I agree that the groups are evidence of conservatism; the evidence I was seeing was that conservatism is not an organization, so the organization which was being referenced was possibly the Republican Party. Other instances compare conservatives and Democrats such as this: Such Democrats rule out "class warfare" and emphasize their friendliness to business interest.  Like the conservatives, they take economic issues off the table. link. - TheDaveRoss 18:20, 7 January 2016 (UTC)
 * By the way, I wasn't saying that the groups are evidence of conservatism (not that I disagree), I was saying that the quote is saying that (with the words "card-holding conservative"). As to the next quote, contrasting the views of "Democrats" with those of "conservatives" does not necessarily imply that the latter is also a specific political party. --WikiTiki89 19:27, 7 January 2016 (UTC)
 * To be sure, neither of these is clear in their meaning, which circles all the way back to DCDuring's sentiment. While clear citations are going to be hard to find, there are many which can be interpreted as evidence, many in which conservative: seems to be a hypernym for Republican, many in which it is a hyponym (sometimes for Republican, sometimes for the Democratic party of the 19th century).  Ambiguity is the one common theme in everything I have looked at. - TheDaveRoss 19:35, 7 January 2016 (UTC)
 * This is because "conservative" does not have this meaning, and that is exactly my point. Maybe sometimes it serves as a hypernym for it and sometimes as a hyponym, but never as a synonym. --WikiTiki89 19:38, 7 January 2016 (UTC)
 * I disagree, I am just saying that it is hard to demonstrate. Since Republicans so often have the feature of being conservative it is hard to suss out when someone is using it synonymously and when they are using it in another way.  For instance in the 5th paragraph of this news story there is a remark about Democrats in Congress "openly inviting conservatives across the aisle."  Since the article is about Republicans cooperating with Democrats I would read that usage of conservative: as synonymous with Republican.  I totally understand that, if you don't think that they are synonyms, you could interpret it to merely mean "inviting people of a conservative bent."  I think it will be nearly impossible to find a usage which is not subject to the same argument, but that doesn't mean that the usages don't exist.  Sometimes it is just very hard to tease out something this nuanced. - TheDaveRoss 19:50, 7 January 2016 (UTC)
 * The purpose of RFV is to verify this specific meaning. If we cannot do that, then we delete the sense. That's the way it works, and for good reason. --WikiTiki89 19:58, 7 January 2016 (UTC)
 * Oh, I was confused about the purpose of the page, thanks for the clarification. - TheDaveRoss 20:11, 7 January 2016 (UTC)
 * Well then if you don't have any unambiguous quotations, then please stop disrupting the discussion. (And I apologize if you weren't being sarcastic.) --WikiTiki89 20:32, 7 January 2016 (UTC)
 * I think this fails the blueberry test. All (or nearly all) Republicans may be conservative, but not all conservatives are Republicans.  So yes, people might use the word "conservative" instead of "Republican" for sheer variety, but I don't think that the word can be fairly said to carry the meaning of "Republican".  The words apply to many of the same people and positions, but they don't have the same meaning.  P Aculeius (talk) 21:07, 7 January 2016 (UTC)
 * There are moderate Republicans now, and there have been Liberal Republicans in the past. Pur ple back pack 89  02:26, 8 January 2016 (UTC)
 * It may literally refer to membership in an organization, but "card-carrying" is used figuratively as an intensifier for all kinds of nouns referring to types of people: "card-carrying optimist, card-carrying psycho, card-carrying idiot, card-carrying capitalist, card-carrying teenager, etc. Also, never underestimate the irresistible pull of alliteration on writers seeking the elusive snappy turn of phrase. Chuck Entz (talk) 03:36, 8 January 2016 (UTC)
 * Also, there are people called Republicans who are also called libertarians. Though some may call such folks conservative, I don't think it is a helpful definition. DCDuring TALK 04:10, 8 January 2016 (UTC)


 * Nuke in favor of a different definition: Until about 50 years ago, "conservative Democrat" was a thing. In the past fifty years, most conservatives have coalesced in the Republican party, and most liberals (including fmr. liberal Republicans) have coalesced in the Democratic party.  Being "conservative" in the United States means you want a smaller, more restrained form of government.  It often also indicates a more regressive view on issues of racial/social justice, and adherence to more traditional views of society, particularly religiously. Pur ple back pack 89   21:13, 7 January 2016 (UTC)
 * FWIW, I have created Conservative Democrat and Liberal Republican. Pur ple back <font color="#CC33CC">pack <font color="FFBB00">89  21:25, 7 January 2016 (UTC)

The month is up tomorrow. This has clearly had enough eyeballs on it, but hasn't been cited. You have three days or I'm closing this as uncited. <font face="Verdana"><font color="#3A003A">Pur <font color="#800080">ple <font color="#991C99">back <font color="#CC33CC">pack <font color="FFBB00">89  15:16, 5 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Closed as not cited/failed <font face="Verdana"><font color="#3A003A">Pur <font color="#800080">ple <font color="#991C99">back <font color="#CC33CC">pack <font color="FFBB00">89  15:09, 8 February 2016 (UTC)

A conservative estimate
If "conservative" means "based on pessimistic assumptions" (as we have defined it), does that mean that a conservative estimate of income is a small one but a conservative estimate of expenditure is a large one? Equinox ◑ 13:52, 16 September 2016 (UTC)


 * I'd say yes. --WikiTiki89 15:08, 16 September 2016 (UTC)


 * That definition is not great. Dictionary.com has "cautiously moderate or purposefully low", which seems to be more accurate. suggests that, at least some of the time, a conservative estimate of expenditure is a low estimate, not a large one. Perhaps it is sometimes alternatively a large one, based on the some idea of "cautious". Compare how a "conservative estimate" of how many people may have already become infected by a new disease is a low estimate, not a pessimistic estimate (which would be that a high number of people are infected). A conservative estimate of how many people were killed in a genocide is likewise a low estimate, not a pessimistic (large) one, claiming no more deaths than are very likely or than are proven, even if a larger number seems likely to pessimists. - -sche (discuss) 17:30, 16 September 2016 (UTC)

lol
"A member of a political party incorporating the word "Conservative" in its name." I love it when our abysmal definitions generate accidental satire. Equinox ◑ 21:13, 12 August 2017 (UTC)
 * You say that but it's better than what it's been replaced with. Two definitions covering the same ground and three trying to punt their senses to needless SOP forks instead of just nailing something down here. — Llywelyn<font color="Gold">II  10:51, 21 May 2022 (UTC)