Talk:daxue

Capitalization of proper noun version
It's showing up like this:

Proper noun
daxue

But in this case, if it's the title of a book, I believe it should be spelled with a capital "D."

24.93.170.200 09:33, 19 December 2007 (UTC)


 * First of all, let's clarify something about Pinyin. It is not a spelling system like English is a spelling system.  It is a phonemic aid, which helps one learn correct pronunciation.  Capitalization is more for the benefit of Western readers, who are accustomed to the conventions of English spelling.  Strictly speaking 大学 can be rendered in Pinyin as daxue, Daxue, Da Xue, dàxué, Dàxué or Dà Xué.  None of those spellings are "incorrect" per se.


 * At any rate, did you see the URL example? URL addresses often are spelled in all lower case, even if they are proper nouns.  -- A-cai 10:55, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

It's not technically pinyin if it doesn't have the tone marks, as far as I understand. Whatever the case, if it's the title of a book, at least the bold version seen above should be spelled with a capital "D." If this is a programming bug in the template, it should be fixed to allow for the capitalization of proper nouns. I'm not sure which URL you're referring to. 24.93.170.200 18:23, 19 December 2007 (UTC)


 * It's not a flaw in the template. This word has been rendered in pinyin as daxue by native speakers.  The URL that I provided is an illustration of this:
 * http://sangle.web.wesleyan.edu/etext/pre-qin/daxue.html


 * Yes, the most accurate rendering is Dà Xué, which is why it appears on the inflection line under Proper noun. Native speakers use (lower-case) pinyin without tones in a variety of contexts.  The most common examples include pinyin which is part of a URL address and on message boards (some people are still lack the capability to type in non-ascii characters).  Here are some message board examples:
 * http://fhpi.yingkou.net.cn/bbs/1951/messages/2431.html
 * http://ks.cn.yahoo.com/question/1406081911230.html this


 * Does this make sense to you now? -- A-cai 23:27, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

Thank you. That website does not present the spelling of this famous book as "daxue" (with lower-case "D"). Generally, famous books (or not-so-famous books) are spelled, in Latin characters, in capitalized form. In our case, the bold spelling of this sense of the word (i.e., the name of this famous book) should be capitalized. 24.93.170.200 23:33, 19 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Look again. I'm not talking about the website.  I'm talking about the URL itself (pre-qin/daxue.html):
 * http://sangle.web.wesleyan.edu/etext/pre-qin/daxue.html
 * Do you now see what I'm talking about? -- A-cai 23:40, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

Yes, I see it. The common practice for most URLs is to give proper names (and everything else) always in lower case. This search shows that the proper noun for the famous book is always given in capital letters (either as "Da Xue" or "Daxue"), with the one exception being a website giving the etymology of the generic term, and saying that it can also mean "institution of higher learning." Our usage of "daxue" in bold, referring to the proper noun (the famous book) should definitely be spelled with a capital "D." 24.93.170.200 23:53, 19 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Wiktionary describes words as they are spelled. We already have an entry for Dà Xué.  The only reason for listing the proper noun definition under daxue is if it is ever spelled in that way (the rule of thumb is three or more attested uses).  Wiktionary does not just list "correct" spellings, but "incorrect" or "alternative" spellings as well.  I have already provided one example of an attested use of daxue as the proper noun.  In the URL address that I provided, daxue.html clearly refers to the proper noun and not the word "university."  If you don't think URL addresses are valid examples of written language, then that's another issue.  -- A-cai 05:47, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

Thanks--if this is the case, there should also be an entry for "Daxue" (right now that redirects here). 24.93.170.200 05:50, 20 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Technically, yes. It all boils down to how much time you want to spend creating entries for every possible spelling variation.  The main criteria is that you must be able to provide examples of attested use.  For example, Ta-Hsüeh, Dà Xué and 大学 all refer to the same thing.  If I were to do a redesign of Wiktionary software, each word would be a record in a database.  That record would include information about every possible spelling variation.  This information would not necessarily need to be typed by hand.  If you input the Chinese characters, software should be able to do all of the conversions for you.  Sadly, we are not to that point yet.  -- A-cai 06:04, 20 December 2007 (UTC)