Talk:end

I sketched five different meanings of the English noun. Obviously, the translation need not coincide for those meanings. Andres 13:13, 24 Jun 2004 (UTC)

The English verb has different meanings as a transitive verb and as an intransitive verb. Andres 13:13, 24 Jun 2004 (UTC)

at the end of the day
How is it most appropriate to add a reference from the end article to at the end of the day? I'm not too familiar with the template used at en.wiktionary.org. Thanks. --DenisYurkin 11:12, 16 February 2007 (UTC)


 * A link to at the end of the day should appear under the heading Derived terms. Jonathan Webley 11:51, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

end
Rfv-sense for 2 senses: (1) Extreme part, and (2) Extreme line. Does anyone know what these are supposed to mean? -- Ghost of WikiPedant 17:39, 5 September 2010 (UTC)


 * The end of something is the extreme part of it. My toe is the extreme part of my foot. I'm not sure about "extreme line". Equinox ◑ 18:47, 5 September 2010 (UTC)


 * Hm, is your toe the end of your foot or would it be better English to say that it's at the end of your foot? And does this "extreme part" sense differ significantly from the existing and much clearer defn2: "The final point of something in space or time"?  I think defn2 covers this meaning adequately. -- Ghost of WikiPedant 00:34, 8 September 2010 (UTC)


 * Maybe "extreme line" was intended to be an improvement on a definition relating to "limit, border". Whatever the intent, it fails to communicate it. BTW, MWOnline has 7 main senses, 17 total lowest-level senses for "end" (noun). DCDuring TALK 19:11, 5 September 2010 (UTC)


 * RFV failed. Equinox ◑ 00:26, 9 July 2011 (UTC)

RFV discussion: November 2013–June 2014
Rfv-sense I think that this sense is ambiguous, and it should be split into two different senses. I've already added my proposal, which is one sense for "final point" (e.g. the end of a movie), and one sense for "extreme point, edge" (e.g. both ends of a cable; burn the candle at both ends; hold the end of the thread). I haven't touched the original sense "extreme part", but I already tried to move some translations into the new senses. I have to admit I don't speak Mandarin or Ukrainian, but I'm pretty positive that the people who added "qualifier:edge" were thinking the same thing as I do. I'm not a native English speaker, so feel free to suggest a better formulation than "extreme point, edge". Additionally, you might consider adding a corresponding sense to the main part of the article. Jenniepet (talk) 22:35, 20 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Which sense? I can't see a tagged sense in . Also, since you're not disputing its existence, rfv seems like the wrong forum; perhaps WT:RFC. Mglovesfun (talk) 15:43, 21 November 2013 (UTC)
 * I think (s)he split the translation tables along the lines mentioned. But RfC is a better venue for this. Sometimes (often ?) spatial and temporal definitions are better separated. DCDuring TALK 16:13, 21 November 2013 (UTC)
 * I removed the WT:RFV request, undid the changes I had made to the translation senses and used some qualifiers in the original translation sense. I will not be making a clean-up request.Jenniepet (talk) 21:59, 21 November 2013 (UTC)
 * As a clarification, the difference is not spatial versus temporal. In spatial use, there are two cases. Objects with a start and a finish, e.g. books, and objects with two ends (or more), e.g. thread, table. To give an example in a better known language, in French you would say la fin du livre (the end of the book) and un bout du fil (one end of the thread). Jenniepet (talk) 21:59, 21 November 2013 (UTC)


 * I would say that a book is temporal. --WikiTiki89 22:09, 21 November 2013 (UTC)
 * This is the kind of discussion that could continue without reaching an end.
 * A physical (spatial) path can be looked at in two ways, something with a beginning and an end (as when one is starting to take it) or with two ends (as when one is in the middle or when one is looking at it on a map). Purpose or goal is sometimes involved but I don't think it is implied by the word itself. In the case of a spatial application of the word end, the distinction is often not made or not relevant. For something temporal, normal discourse requires a distinction between a beginning and an end. That often corresponds to a purpose or an achievement. Of course end can have an essentially telic sense that is completely non-spatial and inherently temporal, in that in normal discourse a purpose or goal is always after the activity required to achieve it.
 * I think the question is whether there is an additional telic vs non-telic or spatial vs temporal distinction that would make a useful English distinction and/or help with clarifying translations. DCDuring TALK 22:45, 21 November 2013 (UTC)
 * One relevant distinction between the spatial and temporal is that a physical path has two ends either of which could be called a beginning. A period of time has one beginning and one end, which are not interchangeable in normal discourse. DCDuring TALK 22:58, 21 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Closed. Untagged by nominator. — Ungoliant (falai) 22:14, 20 June 2014 (UTC)

to no end
I'd like to know what meaning applies in to no end "without success, or without achieving useful results" --Backinstadiums (talk) 18:39, 18 August 2019 (UTC)

at end of
Appearing in "'ge' sound at end of 'mortgage'" or "'it ' at end of sentence" --Backinstadiums (talk) 11:45, 21 September 2019 (UTC)

no end to
https://www.wordreference.com/es/translation.asp?tranword=no%20end%20to --Backinstadiums (talk) 11:47, 21 September 2019 (UTC)

RFC discussion: November 2013–February 2021
This definition: "The final point of something in space or time."

The use of the word "final" is too temporal and telic. "Point" is too limiting, to an instant or an event. This definition doesn't even fit one of the usexes: "At the end of the story they fall in love".

Spatially, end can be a point, a line, an area, or a volume. As an area it could be as half of a total area ("the West End"). Temporally, it can be an instant or, usually, a period or a sequence of events, processes, or states.

Though I dislike the wording, Webster 1913 took pains with their first sense: "The extreme or last point or part of any material thing considered lengthwise (the extremity of breadth being side); hence, extremity, in general; the concluding part; termination; close; limit; as, the end of a field, line, pole, road; the end of a year, of a discourse; put an end to pain; -- opposed to beginning, when used of anything having a first part."

MWOnline breaks this apart. DCDuring TALK 23:25, 21 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Resolved, RFC template no longer present and the definition has been changed since. &mdash; surjection &lang;??&rang; 21:42, 8 February 2021 (UTC)

adjective
[before a noun final or ultimate:] The end result is the same. --Backinstadiums (talk) 16:45, 25 April 2021 (UTC)

at an end
The rivalry between the words is not yet at an end. --Backinstadiums (talk) 20:56, 8 August 2021 (UTC)

Quotations of the purpose-related sense
Quotations for the purpose related sense from Wikisource: Dan Polansky (talk) 13:41, 19 August 2022 (UTC)
 * For what end should I toil?
 * For what end mercenary forces are necessary in free states
 * what we are, and for what end we are born
 * For what end, then, were the other creatures made?
 * For what end does baptism serve, according to him?
 * For what end do endowed universities exist?
 * But for what end do you pile up riches
 * To what end did the king give his patent for coining halfpence in Ireland?
 * Year by year, as commercial rivalry grows more acute, they become more intimately bound up with the prosperity and prestige of their mother-countries. And to what end? To exist as pledges of peace, auspicia melioris aevi, or to fall an easy prey to the power that is supreme at sea and can strike hard on land?
 * when I pause to think of these things, I ask to what end I have lived
 * To what end or purpose is all this wonderful strategy on the part of the bird?
 * But to what end, in many cases, this was designed, I am unable to discover
 * What is the end of our laughter and singing?
 * What is the end of this universe? Intelligence, is it not?
 * what is the end of these things except that we persuade men
 * We ought to consider what is the end of government, before we determine which is the best form
 * What is the end subserved by the union of sperm-cell and germ-cell?
 * Of what use or sense is an immortality of piggishness? What is the end? What is it all about?
 * What is the end and object of their toils?
 * The end of our club is to advance conversation and friendship