Talk:es schaffen

RFD discussion: April–May 2017
Not idiomatic. "schaffen" has the general sense of "to get something done, to succeed in something". The "es" is not unusual in German syntax and refers to the following infintive phrase or subordinate clause. It is used that way with many verbs. Sometimes it's obligatory as in "es verstehen zu" ("to know how to"), "es verweigern zu" ("to refuse to"). Sometimes is used alternatively as in "es einsehen zu", "es akzeptieren zu" (both "to accept to"). There are dozens of these and it doesn't make sense to treat them all as idiomatic. One might add usage notes for verbs that are construed that way.

The example phrase is only an elision of the infintivie phrase "an die Spitze zu kommen" (to get to the top). This, too, is a very normal thing in German syntax with verbs of "going, coming, moving". Like: "ich kann nicht mit( kommen )" (I can't come along), "ich trau mich nicht aufs Dach ( zu gehen )" (I don't dare to go on the roof). So nothing idiomatic there in my opinion. Kolmiel (talk) 05:50, 7 April 2017 (UTC)

Another argument, if it be necessary: I can make the same kind of elision with other verbs. es versuchen: "Er versucht es nicht mal aufs Pferd." (He doesn't even try getting on a horse, literally: "he doesn't try it on the horse"). Kolmiel (talk) 06:05, 7 April 2017 (UTC)
 * Delete, sum of parts. Random note: I'd consider that one example phrase to contain the verb mitkönnen instead of an elision. Nice example of how language isn't definite. Korn &#91;kʰũːɘ̃n&#93; (talk) 15:38, 7 April 2017 (UTC)
 * I'd say it's both. Originally elision, now a new verb. Kolmiel (talk) 18:02, 7 April 2017 (UTC)


 * Delete per Kolmiel and Korn. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 19:15, 7 April 2017 (UTC)
 * Delete. This reminds me of the literal verb sense of rain: one of the peculiarities of English syntax is that weather verbs like this always have "it" as their subject, but we don't have "it" in the entry name (of course, one could argue that's only because subjects are never expressed in our lemma form, the infinitive). Chuck Entz (talk) 01:45, 8 April 2017 (UTC)
 * Just in defence of them who created the entry. We do have "make it", and "es an die Spitze schaffen" is more or less literally the same as "make it to the top". Just in English it's idiomatic, in German it isn't. Kolmiel (talk) 14:44, 8 April 2017 (UTC)
 * Both are strictly SOP, only in English one has to understand that 'it' refers to some goal not explicitly named but known. Korn &#91;kʰũːɘ̃n&#93; (talk) 20:41, 18 April 2017 (UTC)


 * RFD failed. —Μετάknowledge discuss/deeds 04:15, 13 May 2017 (UTC)