Talk:fac

RFV discussion: December 2021
Rfv-sense: A large ornamental letter formerly used at the start of a chapter or section of a book. - I feel bad about being unable to find any quotes for this (searching at Level 7) Notusbutthem (talk) 21:44, 6 December 2021 (UTC)


 * OED gives a single cite (a mention) and claims this is a simple abbreviation of (our sense 5), but we define them distinctly, suggesting fac is a clipping of facsimile. My level 8 searching only found this, which doesn't shed any light on the true definition of the term. This, that and the other (talk) 02:01, 7 December 2021 (UTC)
 * In case the claimed distinction isn't clear, see this image. The "C" at the beginning of the Tenor part is a factotum, whereas the Altus and Bassus parts are a "large letter" of the kind apparently envisaged by our definition of fac, which is normally called an (Initial). This, that and the other (talk) 06:49, 7 December 2021 (UTC)

cited. I managed to avoid the various authors who plagiarized Luckcombe word for word. As for the definition, it is made clear by the 1907 quote. Perhaps someone would care to take a stab at making the definition clearer - it seems related more to how the decorative letter is produced, but if I understand the sample provided by, it looks to me like it is a particular form of factotum. Kiwima (talk) 04:58, 15 December 2021 (UTC)


 * Ugh, what a mess. The 1907 text (non-snippeted version here) gives a definition for "pierced initial" which corresponds to the definition I would have expected for "factotum". The definition for "fac initial" is a slightly different concept which is nonetheless equivalent in printed appearance to a factotum. The available sources are so scant that it is difficult to come up with a def, but I'll try my best. This, that and the other (talk) 08:28, 15 December 2021 (UTC)

RFV-passed Kiwima (talk) 20:17, 22 December 2021 (UTC)