Talk:gündizme

gündizme
Turkish. Our IP user has made up a new word... (Do we really need to verify obvious vandalism?) -- Curious (talk) 20:04, 5 March 2013 (UTC)
 * For the benefit of those of us who don't know Turkish, why is this obvious vandalism? This page suggests the identification of gündizme with "calendar" may be accurate. —Angr 21:45, 5 March 2013 (UTC)
 * It's not whether you speak Turkish, it's whether you remember the previous history with this person. According to, they're trying to wipe out all the non-Turkic loanwords, one protologism at a time. also mentioned an online Turkish dictionary that "coincidentally" adds entries for these new words at the same time they're added here. I just checked Google Books and Google Groups: zero hits. Apparently the correct word is takvim, but that's from Arabic, so it looks like they've made up a replacement from Turkish word-elements or by modifying a word from some other Turkic language. Chuck Entz (talk) 08:50, 6 March 2013 (UTC)
 * When I listed this word yesterday, there were about 10 Google results, including some duplicates. 24 hours later, there are ... 6810 Google results. Impressive! (The high number is caused by the "new" section on every single page of certain websites.) Googling again, this time with "gündizme -borg" to filter those out, gives me just 19 Google results. Looking at those 19, I see: a) several spam accounts of this user, all spamming the same weird words that this IP user also adds to wiktionary; b) dictionary www.ingilizce.g3n.in, a dictionary created by this IP user, containing his invented words, c) online dictionaries that can be freely edited by any person; d) non-Turkish (Kazakh); e) duplicates. Google again tomorrow, and you'll see more spam accounts of this user and more online dictionaries being affected. This spamming is happening to all words that this user is adding to wiktionary. "Verifying" the words of this user simply means that we are watching the online word-spreading activities of this user. I know that what I wrote here has no effect on the outcome of this verification process, but I believe the community should know what is happening. When evaluating Turkish entries added by an IP user, please remember that seeing "thousands of Google results" and/or an entry in an freely editable online Turkish dictionary doesn't mean anything: it could all be produced by the IP user himself.


 * @Angr: that page is made by this IP user. -- Curious (talk) 22:46, 6 March 2013 (UTC)
 * What are you maundering about? --88.238.184.199 02:39, 7 March 2013 (UTC)
 * This is non-sense. If there would be an effort for trying to wipe out all the non-Turkic loanwords, why that online dictionary displays both Arabic and Turkic ones together? Or why do i not change the calendar entry by replacing Arabic origin "takvim" with Turkic origin "gündizme"? You say often something like "Google Book has no hits...". The copyright conditions are more restricted in Turkey than many other countries. For example (as far as I know) a book is not copyrighted after 50 years since its publishing date in USA but it is not copyrighted after 100 70 years since the date of its author death in Turkey (think about the difference).There is a wrong derivated word in Turkish "alınık". It is a new addition in Turkish, perhaps some authors used it in their books but if they do not make their books "public license", Google can not publish them. So, if you search Google, you can see this word is very commonly used in Turkish, but there is no result in Google Books. If a Turkish learner saw this word and looked up Büyük Türkçe Sözlük (published by Turkish Language Association), this word is not listed there (probably because of it is a wrong derivated word). So, this kind of words may not be added to wiktionary? If the answer is "no", how do the people learn their meanings? If you are talking about Google Groups, it is not very commonly used in Turkey. (I am not so good at English, if you don't understand something or what i mean, you may ask me and i may explain it again). --88.238.184.199 11:56, 6 March 2013 (UTC)
 * The strategy is obviously based on unobtrusiveness: removing commonly-used terms would be too obvious and too disruptive and would invite a backlash that would expose the attempts at manipulation. Simply adding the new terms without explanation increases the chance that people will pick up the new terms without realizing they're new. As for your comment about Google Books: their database is full of copyrighted works. If a work is still in copyright, they show it as a hit on searches, but limit the display of the text: either showing just a snippet that includes the highlighted search term, or just showing general information about the work without any text from within it. I would be extremely surprised if they handled this any differently for Turkish works. By the way, I don't know where you got the 50-year figure. Sites like the Internet Archive and Google Books seem to follow a 90-year standard for US works- currently they limit access by default to anything after about 1922. Chuck Entz (talk) 15:50, 6 March 2013 (UTC)
 * For the US, it's 95 years from publication or published pre-1923, as the last copyright extension was not retroactive.--Prosfilaes (talk) 00:03, 7 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Anyway, search the word "alınık" in both Google Search and Google Books search, and then see the difference between them. Your criterion is not working with the Turkish vocabulary. (I've searched it again, noticed there is one result with the same meaning, but it is very little comparing the Google Search results.) --88.238.184.199 02:48, 7 March 2013 (UTC)

I read somewhere it is 50 years or perhaps i remember it wrong (confuse with an other country). Anyway, it doesn't matter. The vocabulary of Turkish has been being changed since the foundation of TDK. If you compare Redhouse's Turkish dictionary (1880) with present Turkish-English dictionaries, you can see many differences between the Turkish vocabulary of that time and the present one, while English words mostly remain the same. It's not important if this word will be removed from Wiktionary, but that person whose user name is Curious, says "our IP user made up...". I don't accept that. This word is a derivation from Kazakh, some people wrote something about it a few years ago. I guess, he thinks I made this word or I am the only person who writes about these words on internet and he is kind of blaming me for this. He says even that i am a language purist but i am not. I am using both foreign origin and Turkic origin words in daily life or on internet. Even if the only ones who use these words were language purists, is this a criterion? Why this comes again and again as a matter? Then some people may say "let's delete X word, because it is used by communists". Tell me what the official ideology of Wiktionary is, then i can think about which words may not be accepted here. --88.238.184.199 16:17, 6 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Shall we just do this the normal way? Three durably archived citations spanning at least a year. Mglovesfun (talk) 17:27, 6 March 2013 (UTC)

Deleted. bd2412 T 16:40, 9 August 2013 (UTC)