Talk:ideology

Redundancy in definitions?
There was a request to delete the sense "study of the origin and nature of ideas" as redundant. However, a "system of ideas" and "study of ideas" are different concepts. Collins and other major dictionaries seem to agree that the word "ideology" indeed has these two separate meanings. �Hekaheka 09:23, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

This comment was added by 59.95.21.246 on Aug 16, 2007: ideology is a way to see,experience & feel the world as it is.

Ideology descriptive or normative
In the meaning currently number one, can I ever say of a set of descriptive statements that it is an ideology? Or is ideology per definition such a set of statements that contains at least one normative statement? Specifically, can I say of Newtonian mechanics that it is an ideology? Thanks. --Daniel Polansky 10:00, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

Whether contested term
Jack M. Balkin says: "Ideology is a much-contested term these days." A support for that note would be useful; then a rephrasing of the note, expanded with detail, could be added as a usage note. To me, anyway, the meaning of the term "ideology" is far from clear. --Daniel Polansky 10:19, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

Ideology as a weighted set of ideas
I've never read a definition of ideology that I felt truly reflected modern use. All definitions that refer to an explanation or justification for actions or beliefs is forcing the term to be so vague that every thought can be justifiably called an ideology, or YOUR ideology being whatever views you happen to hold. Everyone has their own ideology, yours is as good as mine, each to his own, we're all equally validated in our views, etc. so the term essentially becomes meaningless and useless.

If you add to the definition an aspect of value, then we come much closer to the meaning meant when used. Not all ideas are created or valued equally. Some ideas are, on a personal basis, given much more weight than others depending on other beliefs, experiences, etc. When we think of ideas as having a relative value to a person, then ideology is clearly thought of as being an extreme idea or system of ideas that are propped up as holding the highest value for them.

There is also very much the sense of "taking things personally." If someone critizes your idea and you take the critism as a personal attack, then you might hold the idea to an ideological degree.

So you have an option of definitions. The first one considers ideology to be the term for any set of ideas: socialism, conservatism, libertarianism, nazism, yourism (whatever your set of ideas are at a given time), etc. If you're a liberal or democrat, then your ideology is liberalism or socialism and can then be demonized as such. OR, does it make more sense to think of people as holding various mixed beliefs, but refer to them as having an ideological position when they unwaveringly defend those ideas against all reason, even unto death? Not all libertarians are ideologically so, for instance.

There is also the growing negative social trend since 9/11 that ideologies (in the heavily weighted sense) should be avoided and discouraged. This fact heavily detracts from the former "everything goes" general definition of ideology. However, I'm personally apprehensive to any proposed definition that is so vague that it refers to any and all possible sets. To me, using such a generalized definition is an attempt to counter all negative connotations and make a place for extreme views in discussions where they might otherwise not be welcome or, from an alternative perspective, try to equate all groups such as stating that self-professed republicans to be just as ideologically close-minded as suicide bombing muslims.

No, ideology is (or has become) a value-laden term referring to extremely weighted views that are personally held to be true against all other evidence or discussion to the contrary. It could be argued that people actually intend to use the term doctrine instead of ideology but choose against it in fear of offending their own religious groups, but I reserve doctrine to be fundamental premises unquestionably held to be true by an organization or group. Ideologies are usually promoted to people outside the group and pretend to be open to question but with which critisms are usually ignored.