Talk:in vino veritas

This is Latin, not English
I'd like to keep the translations but this is Latin, not English. It's used verbatim in many European languages (no translation is required). Of course there will be citations but isn't it a case when a Latin phrase is used by speakers of other languages? --Anatoli 08:26, 29 July 2010 (UTC)
 * It's a Latin phrase used in English by English speakers knowing it is Latin but using it as if it were an English set phrase, so I'd say that having it as an English entry is the best thing to do (isn't it sum of parts in Latin?) to help our readers. We don't have a firm policy (or even an infirm one) on how to treat a word or phrase from language X embedded in language Y. Thryduulf (talk) 09:27, 29 July 2010 (UTC)
 * I think this phrase has a certain je ne sais quoi. If you get me. Mglovesfun (talk) 09:32, 29 July 2010 (UTC)
 * It is most definitely Latin - however it is subject to in many languages. Needs to be converted to Latin or Translingual. SemperBlotto (talk) 13:01, 5 July 2019 (UTC)

Etymology
The Naturalis Historia was written by Pliny the Elder (not the Younger) and the closest approximation to this phrase that I could find in it is volgoque veritas iam attributa vino est (see 141 here), which admittedly gives about the same meaning.

Looking further, it seems that the 1855 English translation renders this as "Indeed, it has become quite a common proverb, that 'in wine there is truth.'" (though the 1601 translation renders it rather differently and both stray some distance from the original Latin).

Based on this, I have reworded the etymology to say
 * "First attested, as volgoque veritas iam attributa vino est, in the Naturalis Historia (XIV, 141) of Pliny the Elder."

124.169.118.82 04:01, 17 April 2012 (UTC)
 * I've removed this since the fixed phrase is clearly not attested there even if it's the same point. According to the OED Erasmus, apparently the origin of the form "in vino veritas", claimed it was from a Greek proverb but the actual equivalent Greek proverb is somewhat different as well. —Al-Muqanna المقنع (talk) 18:21, 4 September 2023 (UTC)

RFV discussion: September–November 2023
English. PUC – 15:02, 4 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Also clearly widespread use IMO but Citations:in vino veritas anyway. —Al-Muqanna المقنع (talk) 15:53, 4 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Translingual or Latin entry with code-switching amongst educated people instead? I have even heard it in German. As mens sana in corpore sano. Fay Freak (talk) 16:05, 5 September 2023 (UTC)
 * A Latin entry is perfectly doable since there's lots of usage in New Latin texts. Of course (given that the source is Erasmus) European diffusion is expected, but it appears to be rather more common in English than other European languages, and more importantly it's lexicalised in English, as demonstrated by all the non-italicised usage and the OED entry, so should be treated as an unadapted borrowing in an English context. —Al-Muqanna المقنع (talk) 16:45, 5 September 2023 (UTC)


 * RFV passed Jewle V (talk) 10:03, 20 November 2023 (UTC)