Talk:kümmen

U Umlaut in Ingrian
Once again, just like I said in Talk:üks, the letter ü doesn't exist in Ingrian, nor could I find any proof it ever did. Shouldn't all Ingrian lemmas with this letter simply be deleted? Thadh (talk) 19:59, 30 March 2020 (UTC)

Deletion debate
I am not sure if it is common practice to discuss such things here, but a while ago (in January a question on two talkpages, the actual requests in April) I have marked multiple pages for imminent deletion. See the category of requested terms and a discussion on my userpage about the topic. The symbol <ü> simply isn't in use in Ingrian. Thadh (talk) 20:06, 22 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Is Ingrian orthography consistently defined? fi.wp suggests <ü> would indeed be used in place of . &mdash; surjection &lang;??&rang; 11:00, 26 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Let's go over the evidence. The first standard orthography was introduced in the 1930s. There have been published some books in Izhorian in that period, like this one, using  for /y/. This language has been taught in schools (1). The Finnish Wikipedia page also links this online dictionary in their Aiheesta muualla section (Further Reading) that also uses  (try typing 'yks' and you get 'yksi'). Furthermore, no citation is provided for the use of the writing system the Finnish Wikipedia provides (although, I must admit, neither does the English Wikipedia), while the Russian version does. The only use I could find of the <ü> in Ingrian is that on the Wikipedia incubator, which isn't in the slightest a valid source. Why should we assume the information on the Finnish Wikipedia is correct? Thadh (talk) 11:36, 26 July 2020 (UTC)
 * I have unexpectedly found another paper that uses this sort of orthography, the "Ижорский язык" by А. Лаанест, but at the beginning of the document, the author clearly says that the Ingrian vowels "could be compared to the following Estonian vowels" and then proceeds writing the whole document in an Livonian-like writing system (e.g. using <Ǖ>). I don't know whether this is the source of the Ingrian umlaut, but it does show that not all authors pay any attention to the language's orthography. Thadh (talk) 21:14, 3 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Ingrian never was firmly standardized, but yes I think the ‹ü› "standard" appearing in secondary sources is not from any proposed writing system, but rather from linguistic usage, being the transcription followed e.g. in the major dialect dictionary by Nirvi. --Tropylium (talk) 01:43, 5 October 2020 (UTC)
 * For the closer of this request, the terms were: kümmen, kümmenääz, pühä, püssü, räätü, süvä, süän, tüvi, tüär, üheksääz, üks, käkskümment, hüvä. I've deleted them as requested.__Gamren (talk) 14:13, 13 October 2020 (UTC)