Talk:magic item

RFD discussion: October–November 2015
—Μετάknowledge discuss/deeds 15:58, 7 October 2015 (UTC)


 * Delete. Basically fancruft. It's always tempting to add entries about things you like, but... Equinox ◑ 01:33, 8 October 2015 (UTC)


 * Delete --Daniel Carrero (talk) 01:37, 8 October 2015 (UTC)


 * I assume this applies to computer games, which I'm totally ignorant of - but is there a category for that? Some sort of lexicon? Donnanz (talk) 12:03, 9 October 2015 (UTC)
 * Delete, add to magic if needed. Also an item that is magic outside of computer games, such as in a book, a film, etc. could be a magic item. Renard Migrant (talk) 13:38, 9 October 2015 (UTC)


 * I think that we need to add a sense at item for an object that can be obtained and used by a player in a role playing game. A "magic" item would, of course, be SOP to this sense. bd2412 T 13:35, 14 October 2015 (UTC)
 * How are they semantically different from items in the normal sense? Equinox ◑ 19:42, 14 October 2015 (UTC)
 * I believe that the term as used in role playing games is more narrowly construed; "items" as a category distinct from "weapons", for example. bd2412 T 23:32, 14 October 2015 (UTC)
 * As for whether weapons come under "magic item": http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/magicItems.html includes weapons under "magic item", and so does Magic_item_(Dungeons_%26_Dragons). We would need some evidence to verify that weapons are sometimes excluded, I think. --Dan Polansky (talk) 09:44, 17 October 2015 (UTC)
 * Either way, there's still a basic expectation that "magic items" are meant to be obtained and/or used by the characters, as opposed to whatever one happens to see. I think.  For instance, Gorb goes through Pliffa's medicine cabinet, and sees toothpaste, bandages, rubbing alcohol, cotton swabs, a bottle of aspirin, some itch cream, sunscreen, and a box of magical anti-aging pills.  Only the pills are an "item" in the sense that Gorb might take them for himself; the rest are just there so that the Game Master doesn't have to say "the cabinet is empty except for a box of magical anti-aging pills".  In the ordinary sense of the word, they're all "items", but in the role-playing sense, only the thing that the characters are meant to interact with in some fashion is an item.  Or is my example as bad as usual?  P Aculeius (talk) 12:58, 17 October 2015 (UTC)
 * There's definitely a case for considering it a widespread usage originating role-playing games. I'm not sure how distinctive it is, but it does seem to be a more restricted use of the word item than in ordinary parlance.  In the abstract, any object can be an "item".  In a role-playing context, the word item usually refers to objects that the players or characters must obtain and use in the course of a game, such as weaponry, tools, equipment, and "magic items," which we might call a sort of vague shorthand for things like potions, wands, scrolls, or other objects that can be used to cast spells or use of magical powers.  This use is closer to being sum-of-parts than the specific use of "item" in a role-playing context, but it's still not quite identical.  Buttons are items; if a witch casts a spell on some buttons to make them resist tarnish, are they "magic items"?  Perhaps.  But when using the word item in a role-playing context, it's usually more specific than simply "any object one might see, refer to, or interact with, even in passing and with no particular significance to the game."  It's still possibly borderline, but because it's arguably a specific and common reference, I would lean to keep one or the other, if not both.  P Aculeius (talk) 23:34, 14 October 2015 (UTC)

I went ahead and created a separate sense at item based on my own experience: " An object that can be picked up for later use." In games, usually you would not think of a table in a house as an "item", but if there's a magical space-monster-defeater bullet on the table which you can get, then that's an item. I think that is consistent with some observations above. (I know it's not consistent with the item/weapon distinction above, but I don't quite agree with that myself) Feel free to discuss/correct me on something. --Daniel Carrero (talk) 11:01, 21 October 2015 (UTC)


 * In text adventures they are usually referred to as "objects". The fact that one can pick up a bullet but not a large table seems like a natural fact of a simulated real world, and not a lexical distinction. Equinox ◑ 17:45, 21 October 2015 (UTC)


 * I wouldn't limit the notion of an item or magic item to video games. They occur in all forms of role-playing games, and did so long before this type of video game was developed.  The idea that an item can be picked up and carried with a player does sound like a general description, although it doesn't always coïncide with your natural expectations; the item doesn't have to be small or light.  A heavy table could be an item, even if it required an entire party of characters to transport it.  I'm not saying it's likely to be, just that it could.  Or a heavy stone which in real life one character would have to keep setting down to rest.  In video games, text or otherwise, there's often no limit to the amount or weight of items that characters can carry with them; it's like they have a magical backpack that can hold a whole room full of stuff (including liquid or burning embers) but only weigh a few pounds (although this is rarely stated).


 * I'm not certain that an item has to be movable, though. I think the essential characteristic is that it's a usable object, or at least intended to be used in some way in the course of the game.  In a graphics-based adventure, for example, a nightstand might be pictured with a mirror and a hairbrush on it, but you may not be able to pick those up, even though they're natural objects; if they're just decoration the game treats them like they're not there at all.  If there's an empty shell casing or a blank note pad with faint indentations from a missing page on the nightstand, that's more likely to be an item (a clue that has to be collected in order to solve a mystery).  In a natural role-playing game, with a game master and players, you may be able to see, pick up, and examine ordinary objects, but be told that they have no significance, or have it strongly hinted that they can't or shouldn't be taken.  For instance, a character searching for something opens a drawer in a bureau.  The Game Master may describe a number of things in the drawer, only one of which is important to the game and thus an item, but it is up to the player to recognize and take it; the other things in the drawer might not be takeable at all, but serve merely as decoration.  In other words, they're there so that the world isn't devoid of matter aside from useful objects, but they're not items because they serve no other purpose, and in many cases can't be picked up, taken, or used in the course of the game.  P Aculeius (talk) 12:28, 30 October 2015 (UTC)

Deleted. The question remains open as to whether a sense needs to be added to item with respect to gaming/role playing. bd2412 T 21:17, 2 November 2015 (UTC)