Talk:nicholaism

Hi I cant find an etymology for this word. If anyone can help I would be both grateful and humbled. Regards Andrew massyn 19:52, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

Well, on a trivial basis it is an unusual compound of Nicholas + -ism. Another, apparently more common spelling, is Nicolaism, which is more straightforwardly from a Latin Nicolaismus, from Nicolaus (stem Nicola[o]-) + -ismus. It appears to be related to the w:Nicolaitans (Latin Nicolaitae, Greek Νικολαιται, 'followers of Nicholas') mentioned in Revelation 2. —Muke Tever 20:33, 18 February 2006 (UTC) Thanks, but I would argue against its acceptance as an etymology, because reference to unspecified deeds (as per the Nicolaitans) do not equate to clerical marriage or to clerical concubinage. On that argument, it could be related to any diatribe against any Nicholas. I think we need to be more definite than that. Regards Andrew massyn 22:12, 18 February 2006 (UTC)

Well, it isn't my speculation, but appears to be the Internet consensus; a few sources I found: Nicolaismo Nel cristianesimo delle origini, corrente che ammetteva il matrimonio dei sacerdoti. Menzionato per la prima volta nella Bibbia (Apocalisse... —off the Italian Encarta, but the rest is premium and I can't get to it. A Spanish source, Historia de la Iglesia says: La lucha contra el Nicolaísmo tiene que ver con una referencia al Ap 2,6, que era interpretado por los gregorianos como una referencia al celibato del clero. [4] [5]. Notes from a university course: "Nicolaism (after Rev.2.6,14- 15). Clerical marriage, especially in rural areas, a matter of general acceptance by the C11th." [6]. —Muke Tever 16:31, 19 February 2006 (UTC) It seems that Nicholas II, Pope from 1058 - 1061 was the first Pope to argue for reform against clerical marriages. I have included a quote from the on-line Catholic Encyclopedia. (dont know how to do external links) but the reference is "New Advent - The Catholic Encyclopedia" see the articles on Nicholas II, Gregory VII and celebecy. This quote comes from the article on Nicholas II.

'Early in his pontificate he had sent St. Peter Damiani and Bishop Anselm of Lucca as his legates to Milan, where a married and simoniacal clergy had recently given rise to a reform-party known as the "Pataria". A synod for the restoration of ecclesiastical discipline was held under the presidency of these envoys who, in spite of a tumultuous uprising which endangered their lives, succeeded in obtaining from Archbishop Guido and the Milanese clergy a solemn repudiation of simony and concubinage.' Gregory VII was the next Pope and it would seem that his proscriptions were a follow on from that of his predecessor. I think that this would be a more accurate derivation of the term, although it is not used in the encyclopedia at all. I am satisfied with this etymology, but will await consensus. Regards Andrew massyn

Yes, I ran across that information about Nicholas II. Given that 1) no source cited so far links this Nicholas to the etymon of Nicolaism, and 2) it seems highly unlikely that -ism—which when applied to names means following that person's doctrines or practices (Marxism, McCarthyism, Hamiltonism)—would be applied to the person who was against the practice, I decided not to offer it as a possible etymology. Compare simony, a term often occurring alongside ‘nicholaism,’ also named after a person who practiced it, not a person who condemned it. —Muke Tever 23:27, 20 February 2006 (UTC)

Well I am humbled after all! I went to the local University, who went to the OED and Lo! Nicholaism is derived from Nicolaitanism which comes from Nicolatian. So this is the etymology will be putting in. According to Oxford, the Reverend Cawdrey (1604) held that a Nicolatian 'is an heretike, like Nicholas, who held that wiues should bee commmon to all alike' Where the Rev. Cawdrey got his info from is beyond me. Regards Andrew massyn