Talk:niggard

Usage note
Is it really necessary? Having a whole usage note about a minor confusion in parts of the United States seems like overkill to me. < class="latinx" >Ƿidsiþ 06:52, 22 April 2012 (UTC)
 * I disagree. To reallly understand a word, it is important to know that it could be viewed as offensive (ridiculously in this case). It's a common confusion and should therefore be noted, though its prevalence depends on the region, I'm sure. Andrew Sheedy (talk) 03:44, 31 October 2015 (UTC)

Sources or quotes for meaning #2?
I never saw meaning #2 (false bottom to save fuel in fireplace) before, and I don't see that meaning in |MW, |AHD, |Cambridge, |Macmillan, or |Longman's. A web search turned out http://www01.us.archive.org/stream/cu31924026538813/cu31924026538813_djvu.txt, but that seems to be Scots or Lallands rather than English. Anyone has sources or quotes for that acception? PauAmma (talk) 09:42, 18 June 2013 (UTC)

RFV discussion

 * from Talk:niggard

Rfv-sense "false bottom in a grate, used for saving fuel".

I never saw meaning #2 (false bottom to save fuel in fireplace) before, and I don't see that meaning in MW, AHD, Cambridge, Macmillan, or Longman's. A web search turned out http://www01.us.archive.org/stream/cu31924026538813/cu31924026538813_djvu.txt, but that seems to be Scots or Lallands rather than English. Anyone has sources or quotes for that acception? PauAmma (talk) 09:42, 18 June 2013 (UTC)


 * Added a cite, but I now realise it might not be the right sense: "niggard" could be the adjective (meaning the grate is stingily small). Equinox ◑ 17:43, 18 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Century has exactly the challenged sense, with nigger as an alternate spelling. The give   as a source for a cite. DCDuring TALK  00:29, 24 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Sadly only the first volume has been scanned by Google. DCDuring TALK 00:41, 24 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Tufts Digital library has it: "niggards, generally called niggers (false bottoms for grates)" DCDuring TALK 00:54, 24 July 2013 (UTC)


 * From a catalog of the Great Exhibition of 1851:
 * Cooking apparatus, adapted for an opening eight feet wide, by five feet high, and containing an open-fire roasting range, with sliding spit-racks and winding cheek or niggard;
 * There is also dictionary coverage, (including the OED, but I couldn't read the online scan to get the citations). I think this all makes it a UK term, not particularly Scottish.
 * It is not necessarily a false bottom, if it can also be a "movable side" or a "cheek". Presumably it is intended to restrict airflow, to slow down the consumption of the fuel or regulate the fire. DCDuring TALK 01:28, 24 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Passed, citations moved to entry. — Ungoliant (Falai) 23:05, 29 September 2013 (UTC)
 * It is not necessarily a false bottom, if it can also be a "movable side" or a "cheek". Presumably it is intended to restrict airflow, to slow down the consumption of the fuel or regulate the fire. DCDuring TALK 01:28, 24 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Passed, citations moved to entry. — Ungoliant (Falai) 23:05, 29 September 2013 (UTC)

Proof for use as adjective
Given that niggardly serves the role as adjective or adverb, I was surprised to see this used as an adjective, and would like to call into question if we are actually interpreting that correctly.

Only one example is given to support the use from 1852:
 * His heart swelled within him, as he sat at the head of his own table, on the occasion of the house-warming, dispensing with no niggard hand the gratuitous viands and unlimited beer, which were at once to symbolise and inaugurate the hospitality of his mansion.

Even though it is serving the place of an adjective in this sentence, I dispute if we ought to declare the word itself as an adjective.

Isn't this merely a case of "noun as adjective" like in "history teacher" or "ticket office" or "race horse" or "tooth brush" or "cigarette packet" or "news reporter" or "billiards table" ?

Not sure what the actual term for that is, but "niggard hand" seems used the same way. 174.92.135.167 06:15, 12 January 2016 (UTC)


 * It feels slightly different: history teacher = teacher of history; ticket office = office of or for tickets; etc. but a niggard hand isn't necessarily the hand of a (perpetual) niggard, but a hand that is perhaps temporarily acting in a niggardly way. Chambers Dictionary does include the adjective. Equinox ◑ 17:18, 12 January 2016 (UTC)

nigon
Google seems fairly certain that the most recent etymology is ME: "nigon" to LME: "niggard". I'm not sure what their etymology dictionary source is, but I'd imagine it's (primarily at least) OED. Anyway, the article nigon doesn't link here, much less even have a ME definition, and I don't currently have immediate OED access, so would somebody double-checking all this? (For bonus points, add a mention in the niggardly entry when you're done – you rock [ subjv. ] ). SamuelRiv (talk) 17:11, 15 November 2016 (UTC)
 * OED says is English. Added. SemperBlotto (talk) 18:51, 15 November 2016 (UTC)


 * OED uses "English" in isolation to refer to all eras in its evolution. It would be inaccurate classification for WD if the term died by EME. Watch that trigger finger, Semper. SamuelRiv (talk) 13:59, 16 November 2016 (UTC)
 * But it shows citations into the late 17th century, so well into the modern English period. Ƿidsiþ 14:17, 16 November 2016 (UTC)