Talk:nineteenth hole

RFV discussion: July 2015
Tagged but not listed RFV-sense "the pub after a round of golf". Very plausible. - -sche (discuss) 08:49, 23 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Widespread US use. DCDuring TALK 09:55, 23 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Is it? I'm familiar with sense 1, "the clubhouse at a golf course", but not sense 2, which implies leaving the golf course and going to some unaffiliated pub or bar. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 10:58, 23 July 2015 (UTC)


 * WP says "In golf, the nineteenth hole is a slang term for a pub, bar, or restaurant on or near the golf course, very often the clubhouse itself." turns up a lot of hits, in some of which the bar is the clubhouse, but in others of which it's somewhere off-course. - -sche (discuss) 16:25, 23 July 2015 (UTC)
 * The definition with pub wouldn't work for the US anyway. I guess we need US cites with an off-course venue. DCDuring TALK 17:05, 23 July 2015 (UTC)
 * But it would be more economical and more reflective of reality to combine the senses into a vaguer one rather than imply that there is something meaningfully distinct. DCDuring TALK 17:07, 23 July 2015 (UTC)
 * I agree and have combined the senses. - -sche (discuss) 17:43, 23 July 2015 (UTC)
 * This is the first time I've tried to apply the principle of "vagueness matching", something I inferred from Lexical Analysis: Norms and Expectations (2013), by Patrick Hanks (editor of Cobuild, Collins English Dictionary, and New Oxford Dictionary of English. I haven't finished the book, so it may turn out that he goes in a different direction. (He is also dismissive of excessive sense proliferation, of which I am probably guitlty.) DCDuring TALK 19:21, 23 July 2015 (UTC)