Talk:none the

RFD discussion: May 2019–April 2020
May be sum-of-parts: +  (see etymology 2). I'm nominating the entry as there is uncertainty as to whether this entry should remain, and if so, whether it should be categorized as a "Phrase": see "Tea room/2019/May". — SGconlaw (talk) 18:08, 5 May 2019 (UTC)
 * Hard redirect to the adverb section in . Chignon – Пучок 18:09, 5 May 2019 (UTC)
 * SoP, yes, but only to serious students of language. There is nothing about the as an adverb that is familiar to normal folks, though native speakers can use it adverbially in a variety of collocations. If we would like to ensure that Wiktionary will lose normal folks as users, we should probably delete this. If the would like to have normal folks as users, we should keep it and probably add some of the other common collocations, like all the, much the, any the, more the, little the, somewhat the, never the, ever the. I don't think our current Adverb PoS section is worded clearly enough to be comprehensible to a normal user. I am very skeptical that we can write good glosses or non-gloss definitions for such function words. Usage notes in all of these could direct those normal users with an admixture of abnormal curiosity to the, where they could get a grammar lesson, at least if that section is improved. DCDuring (talk) 18:40, 5 May 2019 (UTC)
 * Yes, other uses of this sense of "the" include "(so|not) much the (wiser, better, etc)", "a bit the (wiser, etc)" etc. Do we want them all? I admit they could be opaque to someone trying to parse them with no prior knowledge, but I think redirects to the relevant sense of the and usexes there could cover them well. It's curious that other dictionaries at OneLook have entries for this but not any of the other "X the" phrases I checked. I don't know on what other basis we could justify having an entry for this one but only redirects for the others, or on what basis we could justify having entries for all the others ([[little the]], [[bit the]], etc) besides caprice. - -sche (discuss) 19:36, 5 May 2019 (UTC)
 * I suppose you could argue that "none the" is doubly difficult in that it involves unusual or specialised uses of both words. In something like "much the wiser", adverbial "much" is recognisable from general use, including use in "much wiser" itself, whereas "none" in "none the wiser" is not so obvious. Mihia (talk) 18:20, 7 May 2019 (UTC)
 * : Since has been nominated for deletion, other entries such as  should also follow suit, with a hard redirect to the adverb . Now you would argue that must needs is so popular in literature that it should have an independent entry. I also agree therewith, and the same reasoning goes for none the as well. —Lbdñk(⏳)·(🙊🙉🙈) 19:57, 10 May 2019 (UTC).
 * "Must needs" was kept on a different rationale, one focused on its archaic sound, and intentional usage to invoke this sense. bd2412 T 21:00, 10 May 2019 (UTC)
 * I don't understand what that means. I agree with Lbdñk; the rationale is exactly the same to me. Canonicalization (talk) 19:14, 18 December 2019 (UTC)


 * Redirect per Chignon. - -sche (discuss) 21:54, 16 January 2020 (UTC)
 * Redirected, though narrowly. - TheDaveRoss  16:35, 17 April 2020 (UTC)