Talk:panther

Etymology
It seems to me that the descendance from πάν + θήρα is at least disputed, if not wrong. See e.g. here.

Can anyone provide further clarifications, if such exist?

Cheers, --Schwallex 12:04, 10 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Well, a detailed and methodical linguistic comparison of both Gr. πάνθηρ (from πάν + θήρα) and Skt. pundarikam (probably from pandarah "whitish-yellow") can very easy tell which one is folk etymology. Amongst the vast number of attested works supporting the πάν + θήρα etymology are the very well known and respected Merriam Webster's, Oxford’s, Cambridge's dictionaries and Liddell-Scott's A Greek-English Lexicon, not to mention etymological dictionaries of the Greek language.
 * The fact is that even though etymonline.com is generally doing a very good job, unfortunately requires extra attention on the etymology of many English words derived from Greek.Kassios 16:48, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

Schwallex is right, or at least his view is supported by several authorities. The Shorter OED and the Concise Oxford Dictionary of Word Origins both agree with etymonline.com that πανθηρ is probably of Oriental origin. I have changed the article accordingly until you can show some respectable citations that say otherwise. Widsith 17:55, 11 May 2006 (UTC)


 * You said it yourself, "probably". But that is not etymology. Are you familiar with the Greek word πανθήρα, "whole catch"? What do you think is its etymology??? I have changed the article accordingly until YOU can show some respectable citations that say otherwise than "probably".Kassios 18:14, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

The Oriental origin is probable. The folk-etymology of ‘all-hunter’ is, however, universally discredited. Three sources have been provided on our side, none on yours. Please stop reverting these changes. Widsith 18:20, 11 May 2006 (UTC)


 * I dont know how old are you, but I am too old for such games... If you dont have access in the books I provided you, you can open any good dictionary of Ancient Greek so you'll have πάνθηρ's (or πανθήρα's) etymology in front of you.Kassios 18:30, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

You mentioned Merriam-Webster (see here: ‘from Greek panthEr’); Oxford (I'm looking at the SOED right now, p. 2086, it says ‘from Greek panthēr’; the Concise Oxford Dictionary of Word Origins p. 334 says ‘Gk. pánthēr, of Oriental orig.’); I don't know what Liddell-Scott says but that's 120 years old for God's sake! Etymonline.com also specifically rebuts the ‘all-hunter’ folk-etymology. Also Wordsworth Concise Dictionary of Etymology p. 327 says ‘Gk. πανθηρ, a panther; prob. of Skt. origin.’ Widsith 18:44, 11 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Widsith, in Ancient Greek the word πανθήρα, means "whole catch", again from πάν + θήρα. Νow how obvious is the connection with πάνθηρ??? Common sense even for a non-etymologist! To end the dispute here, so far there hasn't been found any oriental word that its etymology justifies strongly enough that πάνθηρ derives from it instead of πάν + θήρα! Kassios 19:09, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Might as well add that, in Ancient Greek both πανθηρ(panthir) and πανθηρας(panthiras) exist, the first beeing the noun and the second the adjective. The word πανθηρ can be loosly translated as "ultimate predator", the use of the adjective is not restricted to felines and can be attributed to humans too.

Other etymological possibilities
First, if the word were Greek the correct analysis would be πᾶν + θήρ, not *πάν + *θήρα. Second, since the word obviously didn't exist in Proto-Greek, its etymon could (in principle) be from anywhere: Semitic (Canaanite or Egyptian), Anatolian IE, and of course Pre-Greek. So, until the publication of an authoritative result concerning this matter, the etymology in the entry should remain as it is now. Omnipedian 14:33, 28 September 2008 (UTC)