Talk:patriot

Is the portion about excessive support really in the normal definition of Patriot? I would have thought that was more of a jingoist.


 * That seems to be the definition in America. Should that be tagged as such?  --Connel MacKenzie 01:23, 14 August 2005 (UTC)


 * (1) one whose ruling passion is the love of his country (2) one who maintains and defends his country’s freedom or rights (3) a factious disturber of the government. contrary to popular belief, patriotism has nothing to do with following political authority, except to the extent it is voluntary. anything that "seems to be the definition in america" is very probably wrong, and twisted in the orwellian sense, towards subservience to the state. jingoism. to the extent that "love" implies excessive support, then yes that would be appropriate.

Pronunciation
Could someone please explain the difference between US and UK English pronunciation of this word, in the entry, in the manner approved for Wiktionary entries.

US: long "a" as in "pay".

UK: traditionally the short "a" as in "pat". However the US pronunciation appears to be being adopted increasingly in the UK. G-W 11:53, 14 November 2008 (UTC)


 * done. Thryduulf 15:25, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

Revised definition
I was about to clean up the original discussion text when I thought of a better way, by adding this.

I am submitting my try at Patriot both as Definition and as Translation, as I believe the concept, as so phrased, is sufficiently universal as to apply to any country worthy of the people within its borders. Of course, mine is but one voice, and I have just used it to the best of my ability, and hope you will agree.

Roslyn (talk) 12:58, 23 February 2013 (UTC)

Supporting Material
“A person of integrity who is proud of and loyal to their country.” --Roslyn (talk) 01:52, 22 February 2013 (UTC)

I offer this take on the definition of the term, which can be somewhat controversial particularly where the modern interpretations of an American Patriot in particular can be coloured by, for lack of a better term, linguistic drift.

Many of the Founding Fathers and other early influential families (Simon Boerum, Stephen Van Rensselaer, Isaac Low (ties to the Schuyler family), Pierre Van Cortlandt, John De Hart...), and of course at least two early or notable Presidents of the United States (Martin Van Buren, Theodore Roosevelt) were of Dutch heritage as, of course, New York began as a Dutch colony, New Amsterdam, and therefore would be familiar with the Dutch definition of a Patriot would be part of their cultural heritage, and likely by extension, though here I presume, familiar with the Danish single–meaning of the term.

"Person who integrates with, is proud of and loyal, to his country" according to my friend Rasmus Nielsen,, a native English and Danish speaker.

It becomes most relevant, in my opinion, that integration is not assimilation, but rather a meeting of cultural values and traditions to the benefit of all, and that from there the common root of integrity, which according to my own grasp of the English language and every resource available to my on my MacBook now reflects all of the positive associations, sufficiently so that the two are nearly interchangeable here, and so I took the more readily embraced option, which changes the nuances of the noun to reflect a less jingoistic, or defensive, or otherwise sensitive flavour to one that is emphatically seated in community spirit, thus cleansing the notions of pride and loyalty of the previously suggested hint of zealotry and, I believe, presenting a more accurate view of the nation in its own eyes and that of the world.

I express this rather clumsily here, my lack of sleep being quite apparent to me, but I believe the words speak for themselves, most eloquently, in doing justice to the best aspects of the ideal.

I hope this take will find favour with readers and editors alike.

Please don't hesitate to clean up this rather lengthy and meandering comment.

Roslyn (talk) 15:00, 21 February 2013 (UTC)

Roslyn (talk) 12:50, 23 February 2013 (UTC)