Talk:shame

RFV discussion: December 2016–April 2017
Sense: "(archaic) That which is shameful and private, especially body parts."

There is a cite proposed: Bible, Isa. xlvii. 3
 * "Thy nakedness shall be uncovered, yea, thy shame shall be seen: I will take vengeance, and I will not meet thee as a man." (KJV)
 * "Your nakedness will be exposed and your shame uncovered. I will take vengeance; I will spare no one.”" (NIV)
 * "Your nakedness shall be uncovered, and your disgrace shall be seen. I will take vengeance, and I will spare no one." (ESV)

I don't read Hebrew, but it looks like "shame" here is just a literal translation of the Hebrew word for shame. It's not an archaic use (as shown by the NIV), and I don't know that the English here is referring to body parts instead of going from a concrete form of exposure to a more figurative one. I don't know whether we need this entry at all; extending an emotion like shame, pride or hope to cover the thing that causes the shame, pride or hope is standard literary form. (Maybe this should have been an RfD, but three good cites may make this a lot clearer, and a lack of cites will justify disposing of it.)--Prosfilaes (talk) 22:38, 6 December 2016 (UTC)


 * Here's one I found immediately
 * 2004, Darlene Barriere, On My Own Terms:
 * I crossed my arms to cover my naked body, to cover my shame.


 * I wonder if the misinterpretation of the biblical reference (if that be the case) has actually led to the word being used subsequently in this way...(?) Leasnam (talk) 23:01, 6 December 2016 (UTC)


 * Yeah, okay. I'm going to remove the archaic, and if someone else wants to close the RFV itself, they're welcome to.--Prosfilaes (talk) 23:31, 6 December 2016 (UTC)


 * RFV passed. —Μετάknowledge discuss/deeds 06:00, 14 April 2017 (UTC)

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 * semi(qumeran-script) origin  for the eng. word  "shame"?  aram. syr : "šwmh"
 * http://cal.huc.edu/oneentry.php?lemma=%24wmh%20N&cits=all

Zoren999 (talk) 07:43, 15 December 2019 (UTC)


 * No. Did you read the entry? Unless someone forged a lot of entries, there's a Middle English word shame from an Old English word shamu (both normalized into modern English orthography) that's similar to a bunch of words in other Germanic languages (and sh is frequently sk in other Germanic languages), all of which have seemingly gone through little to no semantic shift. There's no reason to assume a origin in anything but Proto-Germanic.--Prosfilaes (talk) 08:27, 15 December 2019 (UTC)

Separate etymologies?
I'm not very familiar with conventions around etymologies, but I'm surprised to see the noun/interjection be in a different etymology section than the verb, since they seem very closely related. Is this an error? Colin M (talk) 16:21, 22 March 2021 (UTC)

Notes about etymology: This word seems clearly related to the Persian and Urdu word شرم, Russian срам, reconstructed Proto-Slavic/sormъ, German Scham, etc. Yet as of 2024-03, most of those wiktionary entries reference different Proto-Indo-European roots. That must be incorrect, since obviously all of these would go back to the same Proto-Indo-European word. Sdarwin2 (talk) 23 March 2024 (UTC)

English noun definitions
I'm fairly certain that definitions 4 and 5 are the same thing, and that use of the word to refer to private parts (a use which doesn't necessarily mean the speaker considers them shameful) should be considered a separate definition and identified as a colloquialism (or something along those lines). CrisH7 (talk) 21:41, 5 August 2021 (UTC)

interjection
To react sympathetically to something disappointing, Shame, old friend, we would have invited you if we'd known you were free. --Backinstadiums (talk) 10:44, 12 August 2021 (UTC)