Talk:their asses

RFD discussion: May 2022–July 2023
Also, , , , , ,.

These seem SOP, the sense of (A person; the self; (reflexively) oneself or one's person, chiefly their body.) It is all frequently replaced with "butt" and other synonyms, which makes it less idiomatic in my view. Since it is also constructible with all of these others pronouns it becomes less and less set. - TheDaveRoss  13:07, 2 May 2022 (UTC)


 * Strong keep - they're pretty unique in that they're used in place of /'/etc. as well as /'/etc. I think the only synonym is //etc., and that's clearly just a euphemism. You're unlikely to hear any other synonym of being used this way (outside of obvious humour doing it for effect), and I can't think of any other tangible nouns which can be paired with //etc. to create genuine pronouns (as opposed to intangible nouns like  - though we do have entries for  among others). It's definitely not productive in any real sense.
 * To give an example: even though "save your ass" can clearly be changed to "save your skin", you wouldn't ever hear "get your skin over here" or "why is your skin always so late?" because "your skin" is not a pronoun (but merely a metonym used only in a specific context). On the other hand, clearly is a real pronoun that can be used in any context, albeit with a somewhat modified syntax (and leaving aside whether that would be a good idea). Theknightwho (talk) 19:36, 2 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Delete all: ass is used here metonymically to mean one’s self, and this meaning is already recorded as etymology 2, sense 5, at that entry. — Sgconlaw (talk) 19:53, 2 May 2022 (UTC)
 * This isn't true, because you can't ask "why is yourself always so late?" You can ask "why is your ass always so late?" The fact it can be used in place of either or  makes this blatantly not SoP, and is not covered by a definition on ass for the reason that you cannot define a pronoun on a noun entry. Theknightwho (talk) 19:56, 2 May 2022 (UTC)
 * I see it differently. "Why is your ass always so late?" can be analysed as "Why is your self [or your body, or your person] so late?". The fact that your ass, your self, your body, or your person can be replaced by the pronoun you doesn't mean those phrases need to be treated as pronouns. — Sgconlaw (talk) 20:03, 2 May 2022 (UTC)
 * =/= . There are no situations where  can be used where it could not be swapped out for either  or  (ignoring the interjection). It's also completely unheard of to use   in the way you have in your example, but if it were, that would make it a pronoun too, because it's referring to someone anaphorically (sense 2) and cannot be preceded by a determiner ("the/a/my/your your ass"), which together define pronoun. It's a bound term.
 * Exactly the same logic applies to, which has two cites showing it being used as a pronoun in place of (as opposed to when it's used as a formal term of address following a statement). Again, it's about the anaphorical reference and the lack of a determiner. Theknightwho (talk) 20:23, 2 May 2022 (UTC)
 * @Sgconlaw None of those sound natural though… and I’d be surprised if they could be cited as well. Like no one really says “Get your body up!” unless they’re talking about a workout exercise or something, whereas “get your ass up!” is just normal usage of a pronoun. “Why is your [body/person/self] so late?” straight up does not sound right at all. AG202 (talk) 20:51, 2 May 2022 (UTC)
 * I don’t think this sort of substitution needs to “sound natural”. That’s a red herring, I feel. In “Get your ass up!”, ass is being used as a metonym of a person’s body or self, and thus as a noun. I don’t think it makes a difference that nobody actually says “Get your body up!”. — Sgconlaw (talk) 21:44, 2 May 2022 (UTC)
 * @Sgconlaw Is it though? Even at the entry written at, it says "By extension, one's personal safety, or figuratively one's job", so in that case it being used to refer to one's self or body is faulty. And speaking personally, I certainly don't really parse it as "your body" or "your person" for sure, for similar reasons. AG202 (talk) 21:49, 2 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Also the second example at doesn't really align with that that well either. AG202 (talk) 21:50, 2 May 2022 (UTC)
 * It doesn’t seem like “one’s personal safety” or “one’s job” is the relevant noun sense here, so I’d say those senses are simply not applicable. The relevant sense is “one’s body, person, or self”. — Sgconlaw (talk) 03:32, 3 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Actually, the thing that clinches it is that it is impossible to use that sense of outside of the possessive ("my/your/their"). That means it cannot be a noun, and it is therefore absolutely not SoP. Theknightwho (talk) 20:42, 2 May 2022 (UTC)
 * That isn't unique to this sense, though this may be the most common example. "...don't show your face around here..." or "...keep your hands off of me..." are similar constructions. I don't think that means and  are necessary entries, or idiomatic. -  TheDaveRoss  15:45, 4 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Is it productive, though? They're set phrases. Theknightwho (talk) 15:49, 12 May 2022 (UTC)
 * "We need to get asses in seats to keep this place profitable." - TheDaveRoss  12:17, 19 May 2022 (UTC)
 * "Get your sorry white ass out there." Other modifiers include fucking, tired, sweaty, cute, fat/skinny/flabby/bony, yellow, beaten, dragging, loser, old/young, inconsequential. Though some usage refers to the body part alone, other usage is more clearly referring to an entire organism (plenty of usage of "its ass"), and other usage is ambiguous. IOW, DCDuring (talk) 18:41, 21 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Strong keep per Theknightwho. AG202 (talk) 20:48, 2 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Delete. Everyone is focusing on the substitutability of "ass", but it's the other half of the construction that's interchangeable: it's not just pronouns, any designation of a person can be substituted: "I want to see Joe's ass in my office ASAP!" It's just [noun, pronoun or proper noun referring to one or more individuals]+[possession] + ass. The whole purpose of the construction is to attach a vulgarity as an intensifier- you can't say "get your esophagus over here!" because "esophagus" isn't unpleasant or shocking enough. Chuck Entz (talk) 04:53, 3 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Yes, the first word is interchangeable because it's acting as a pronoun. The fact that a name could be put there doesn't change the fact that it can only be used in the possessive. It's also not just any intensifier - it's the only one, with a softer version as an alternative. Theknightwho (talk) 08:40, 3 May 2022 (UTC)
 * This is in fact an argument for keeping this in the form, like we find here referring to , then supervising the Antitrust Division, by the appellation “McLaren’s ass”.  --Lambiam 10:29, 4 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Delete. This information could be put at one's ass. WT:CFI states that reflexive idioms should use one instead of every possible variant. Old Man Consequences (talk) 15:00, 3 May 2022 (UTC)
 * I would support this compared to deleting everything. AG202 (talk) 16:19, 3 May 2022 (UTC)
 * It makes it considerably harder to find, though, and is less intuitive to ordinary users. Theknightwho (talk) 18:41, 3 May 2022 (UTC)
 * I doubt ordinary or extraordinary users will use a term like “your asses” as a search term. The generic-personal-pronoun rule may be less intuitive, but that applies equally to, , , and so on; is there a rationale for making an exception for this specific case? --Lambiam 07:56, 4 May 2022 (UTC)
 * I equally doubt that we'll see many searches for His Imperial Majesty either, but the logic still applies. Theknightwho (talk) 15:37, 12 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Delete. Binarystep (talk) 03:57, 4 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Merge into a single entry (per  and the observations by Chuck Entz concerning Joe’s ass above) and then Delete all these with other, specific personal pronouns (but add See also  to the interjections my ass and your ass).  --Lambiam 10:45, 4 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Redirect (merge) to ass or to someone's ass, I think. It seems like ass is the lexical element, since the first part can be any possessive, and indeed the second part can be changed to arse (or dumbass: ) or expanded with other words ("your guys's stupid asses"). I feel like we had a discussion about something of this sort previously, but I can't find it. Maybe I'm thinking of the inconclusive old discussion at Talk:my ass, where someone make the side point that terms like baby are sometimes used pronominally—"when baby is crying". I concede e.g. "Majesty" is also somewhat variable ("your Majesty"; "his Majesty" and "her Majesty" = "their Majesties"; in a few books even "my Majesty"), but that's still a lot less variable (*"I want the director's Majesty in my office pronto"?). - -sche (discuss) 03:20, 12 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Can one say something like, “We sent out six asses to reconnoitre the area. Only two came back.”? I mean, can ass be used as a pars pro toto in the sense of “person” without possessive determiner identifying the possessor of the body part? If it is obligatory, this is of lexical significance. --Lambiam 10:11, 21 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Delete, mostly per Sgconlaw. Imetsia (talk) 16:02, 12 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Delete. My take on this is the same as Chuck Entz's. I do think my ass should be kept, however, due to its unique, separate use as an interjection. 186.212.6.138 02:51, 26 July 2022 (UTC)
 * Delete all except my ass which should be kept because it has uses that are clearly not SOP. This is not unique with pronouns. "John's butt" exists. Maybe create someone's ass and someone's butt and redirect them all. 172.58.171.40 16:24, 20 September 2022 (UTC)
 * I think this should be moved to one's ass, per the precedent we've set. (But is it one or someone? We can't seem to decide.) If this must be a keep or delete vote, though, i consider this a keep because I want the definition re-titled, not deleted. — Soap — 18:14, 20 February 2023 (UTC)
 * If this gets deleted, I ask that we at least maintain the others (all possible forms) as redirects because, while the content at ass is sufficient for a naive learner to use the expressions properly, they might not know where to look on the page without a guide. As for one's ass, in theory it should exist too, but almost nobody is going to use that as a search string, so I'm ambivalent about it. — Soap — 20:40, 22 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete all noun sections. We should add all attestable "interjection" forms (singular/plural, 1st/2nd/3rd person), at least as hard redirects to someone's ass.
 * I don't see this as a translation target either. Ass is a noun in these constructions that serves as a usually derogatory intensifier, but parallel to such nouns as self, person, etc. The question is how do other languages accomplish the functions of derogation and intensification, either separately or jointly. It need not be done in a way closely parallel to the way it is done in English. As for showing it all lexically, consider that it took 270 pages to cover, using OED material, idioms involving fuck in The F Word (3rd ed.), but did not include collocations like who the fuck, why the fuck, fuck him, etc. DCDuring (talk) 18:41, 21 March 2023 (UTC)


 * Delete. If there is really something grammatically unique about ass in these phrases we can cover it in a non-gloss sense at . &mdash; excarnateSojourner (talk &middot; contrib) 21:03, 16 June 2023 (UTC)

Deleted. A clear consensus has developed. bd2412 T 03:17, 12 July 2023 (UTC)