Template talk:U:en:less and fewer


 * Template:usage less fewer


 * Author: &mdash;GraemeMcRaetalk 20:40, 31 October 2005 (UTC)


 * Description: provides the text of the "usage notes" section for one or more words.


 * less vs. fewer: The correct usage hinges on knowing whether the noun modified is of a type that can be counted.


 * Rationale for using a template: If two or more words are being compared, then the text of that comparison should appear in the entries for both words. So it makes sense to write a template, in a standard form, to house the text that appears in both places.  The bold proposal being made here is to create one template for each set of usage notes, with the name of the template being the lowercase word, usage, followed by a blank-delimeted list of words being discussed in the text.  This approach eliminates the need to make changes in two places, and, for those of us who care about changes made by others, the need to check up on them to make sure they remembered to make the change in both places.


 * Self-edit feature of this template: Because this is a Wiki, it should be accessible for all to edit and improve. Hiding text away in templates might tend to make that more difficult, to the point that potential editors might be unwilling to hunt down the text in the Template namespace, and then make the necessary changes.  For this reason, a self-edit link is provided in the template so that upon viewing any article in which the template is included, any user may click the "Edit usage" link, and make changes he deems appropriate.

==Usage notes==
 * Usage:


 * The purpose of the comment that says "Click the [Edit usage] link..." is to help people who might click the [Edit] link generated by the section header. If they do that, they'll see just the template, , not the text inside the template.  Hopefully, they'll hit the back button, and then click [Edit usage] to edit the text.  That's the idea, anyway, so it is recommended that this comment be placed next to the template as a hint to potential editors.

Deletion debate
This seems to be neither a template or good usage notes. At absolute best, it should be on less and fewer (as text) and cleaned up rather a lot as its too long, and self confessed POV. Mglovesfun (talk) 07:14, 7 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Invalid. Whoever writes new usage notes for less and fewer can decide whether or not they wish to use the template. At such a time, the deletion of this template will be uncontroversial. (This is really a WT:RFC in disguise, right?) Conrad.Irwin 11:06, 7 January 2010 (UTC)
 * What's invalid? My reasoning, or the template? I'm just saying we don't need a template that only appears on two pages (right now, one as it happens). Mglovesfun (talk) 11:59, 8 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Yeah, we do. It enables someone to better two entries at once. Compare template:color-colour (verb), which exists for the same reason, and is also for use in only two entries. Yes, the nominee may need cleanup, but I think it's a keeper. &#x200b;— msh210 ℠ 19:34, 8 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Ok move to cleanup. Mglovesfun (talk) 21:24, 9 January 2010 (UTC)

Kept. Mglovesfun (talk) 11:46, 14 January 2010 (UTC)

Proposed edit to template
Although commonly used, the traditional rule is that using less for countable numbers (e.g. "She had less employees than in previous years") is incorrect. Less traditionally applies to quantity (indicating a smaller size or smaller uncountable amount) while fewer applies to countable numbers (the traditionally correct usage being "She had fewer employees than in previous years").

In some sentences, either word could be used but with different meanings:
 * 1) Their troubles are fewer than ours, meaning "Their troubles are not as numerous as ours"
 * 2) Their troubles are less than ours, meaning "Their troubles are not so great as ours"