Template talk:de-decl-noun-unc-av

Table
Thus: -84.161.14.32 02:58, 28 July 2015 (UTC)
 * In case of Jesus & Christus the vocative is not obsolete (e.g. duden: "Anredefall: Jesus und Jesu"), and in this case the ablative equals dative, so it's "different": Traditionally the vocative is called vocative and the ablative ablative, even though the ablative equals the dative. Nowadays where ablative and usually also vocative are deprecated, only dative is mentioned and no ablative. But: If the ablative would be different from the dative, it wouldn't be unlikely that there still would be an ablative nowadays. Or put in another way: In case of Jesus and Christus it's not a question which word forms are used in texts (nothing changed in case of Jesu and Christo), but a question of how grammarians view these forms ('grammarians' don't use the label ablative anymore).
 * In case of many other Latin-German names not only vocative and ablative are obsolete, but also the Latin genitive, dative and accusative. So, this template would be unfitting.
 * In case of Maria - the name of the mother of Jesus - the genitive can still be Mariä (= Latin Mariae) (e.g. duden: "Genitv: Marias, auch: Mariens, Mariäs" & "Mariä, Maria, Marias" - that "Mariäs" should be an error), but Latin dative and accusative are obsolete too.
 * In case of many Latin-German names, including Maria, it would be better have a normal declension, then some headline like "Old declension" and then a table with all 6 cases, where an "obsolete" would be redundant, and thus unnessary and thus annoying.
 * In case of Jesus & Christus one could also use two tables, where the first one shows how grammarians nowadays treat the name (no ablative), and where the second shows how grammarians treated the name (with ablative). As there is no 5-cases-declension table, one could create one (for ca. 3 words...) or simply mention the vocative underneth the normal table.