Template talk:it-conj-are

Conditional
Conditional tenses are NOT part of the Indicative mood, but part of the Conditional mood. In Italian there are different moods: Indicative, Subjective, Conditional and Imperative, besides the three undefined moods (Infinitive, Gerund and Participle).

So please remove the conditional tenses from the Indicative group, because they don't belong there.

You can look at this en.wiki page if you have any doubts. Thanks. --58.8.190.150 18:16, 30 August 2008 (UTC)
 * That's at odds with other Romance languages then. Classical Latin (=future perfect) and the Iberian languages treat the "conditional" as indicative. --EncycloPetey 18:21, 30 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Fine, let it be at odds then. Conditional ain't no indicative. And, by the way, there is no imperative for any person other than the second (the others are subjunctives).79.6.73.12 17:06, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

I must agree with the anonymous user that started the discussion last year: considering conditional as a sub-group of indicative mood is at odds with standard Italian grammar, where conditional is always treated as an autonomous mood itself. (You may see every grammar handbook for schools and colleges). By the way, the correct standard written form of 3rd person singular personal pronoun is just egli/ella rather than lui/lei. Sentinella 22:49, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

Draft for a change
Consistently with my arguments above, I propose now a major change in this template: I prepared a draft here. Actually I'm just resuming the edit the anonymous user did last year, I only used (what seems to me) a softer color for conditional mood. By the way, if somebody doubts about the grammatical remarks above, I found some precise reference: e.g. Marcello Sensini, Grammatica della lingua italiana, Mondadori 1997, ISBN 88-04-46647-2: p. 270: Section 4.3 "Il modo condizionale e i suoi tempi" (conditional mood and its tenses); pp. 304-313: verb conjugation tables report "egli" as 3rd person singular pronoun (and, of course, treat conditional as a mood). ---Sentinella 13:55, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

Some other remarks: 1) I modified my initial draft. The most important change is the use of Template:rel-top in order to make usually visible only the bar. 2) Minor changes: I restored the missing persons in imperative (I followed again Sensini's tables on this), and added "/ella" to the 3rd person pronoun. 3) I'm going to create other drafts for the remaining templates in Category:Italian conjugation templates: they should be harmonized, current differences are too evident. Sentinella 21:52, 8 June 2009 (UTC)