Template talk:trans-top

Change
Why has "Translations to be checked" been added to this template. It causes the translation sections of many entries (such as dictionary) to appear incorrectly. —Stephen 14:58, 2 January 2007 (UTC)


 * I'm sorry, I saw this and didn't pay enough attention. Fixed. Robert Ullmann 21:27, 2 January 2007 (UTC)


 * In this format, a gloss is required, though, right? I think dictionary is was what needs to be fixed (and any others missing the gloss, using this template.)  Perhaps the addition of an invisible  "gloss-missing" cleanup category would be a better default?  --Connel MacKenzie 21:44, 2 January 2007 (UTC)


 * That's not what the problematic edit was about; it was adding "Translations to be checked" as the section header if something was invalid (or something?). Using this (or top) without a gloss is fine in the simple cases where there is only one definition.


 * People are way too excited about this template, because they don't know how to do collapsible sections (which takes CSS). It was jus a demo, AND IS NOT READY TO BE USED ANYWHERE OTHER THAN AS A DEMO UNTIL THE CORRECT CSS WORK IS DONE!!! Robert Ullmann 21:52, 2 January 2007 (UTC)


 * I apologize for jumping the gun. However, I understood it to require the parameter, nevertheless, so that translation sections that haven't been checked (for incorrect subdivisions) would not be present.  Sorry for stepping on your toe.  --Connel MacKenzie 21:57, 2 January 2007 (UTC)


 * You aren't stepping on my toe :-). But this template was and is a demo, a hack to show what could be done. It is not ready to be used, it needs serious CSS work (classes, preferences, etc. etc. etc.) and maybe should be subbed into top eventually. It certainly is not some general collapsible section template! (but people are so eager!) sigh Robert Ullmann 22:30, 2 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Have you not seen WT:VOTE yet? I assumed you hadn't voted for some reason or another.  But the demand for these is pretty high - leaving it in limbo seems to be causing confusion for too many people who are at a loss (perhaps learning their way around here.)


 * Has anyone added this to WT:CUSTOM yet? Should I just try to figure out the CSS on my own, then plop it into WT:PREFS?  --Connel MacKenzie 05:15, 3 January 2007 (UTC)


 * I'm not sure if it was poor documentation, or what. The current behavior is to count the number of navigation boxes on a rendered page.  If one or less, the contents are exposed.  In WT:PREFS I already have a "disable hiding" thing, which will expose the contents if more than zero appear.  Obviously, something is amiss, as the nav boxes are hidden on pages such as WT:VOTE all the time.  I'm tempted to overhaul that logic to make it dependent only on the user preference, and never on the number of nav frames appearing.  This should really move to WT:GP now.  --Connel MacKenzie 07:25, 3 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Kinda still trying to figure out what to do; not helped by the fact that the net here has been so unreliable (I was going to extend my last comment above, but the net promptly went away. ;-) Robert Ullmann 11:38, 3 January 2007 (UTC)


 * I now have the "Leave translation boxes ("Nav boxes") expanded on initial page load." checked, but they remain collapsed. __meco 18:13, 31 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Don't blame my change, fix dictionary et al.! Or maybe I should say thanks for bringing it to attention, since "fix dictionary et al." is a bit unreasonable. The original intent was just to provide a way of listing TTBC under the same collapsible box. I didn't mean to mess up your translation workload.
 * I'm going to make a minor change to at least note which pages are incorrectly formatted. This will use a different category than the TTBC you rely on. After that there shouldn't be any need for a generic header, since that would be an incorrect use! I would hope that applying TTBC as the default at that point isn't as controversial. DAVilla 02:18, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Default parameter text isn't very useful
The default parameter text, "Translations", doesn't make much sense, since it is an exact duplicate of the "Translations" section heading. I think it'd make more sense to put one of the wikivariables in there, probably the one for the current pagename (i.e. the term being defined.) &mdash; SMcCandlish &#91;talk&#93; &#91;contrib&#93; ツ 00:41, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
 * The default parameter text should be an error! PAGENAME is not a valid gloss! DAVilla 02:06, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

What about floats
The template does not allow floats next to it, see parrot (or its history). Is there a reasonable solution for this?


 * The nav CSS stuff it uses defines a full width box, and when expanded it uses full width, so it has to appear below float-right boxes.

I’d like to note that maybe we should strike the screaming above, or is the template still not ready to be used? That would be strange, it is being substituted by bots now. H. (talk) 11:17, 11 April 2007 (UTC)


 * It just needs actual documentation above the discussion ;-) Robert Ullmann 15:06, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

Three templaces at the same time
I suggest the user can click to include    at the same time in the same page, with a single click. This gives more productivity.
 * Use --212.166.227.56 09:46, 16 June 2007 (UTC)
 * I suggest include link option in the edit box.

Change the Show/Hide link?
Can we move the Hide/Show link to the left side or make the entire bar clickable? On larger screens like mine, the link is far away from the rest of the content and when I move the mouse far over to click it, it often doesn't reveal much, making it seem like a waste to even be hidden in the first place. --DBN 01:37, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

Show/Hide all
Is it possible to make an alt-click show or hide all of the translation boxes in a section, or in an entry? This would be analogous to the way the alt key works for minimize and close window controls on the Mac. —Michael Z. 2009-01-11 16:31 z 
 * I think it would be possible, but fiddly, and, if the alt-click was not on the first translation box, it would cause everything visible to shift downwards horribly. Better to use the WT:PREF to not hide them, or if we had another "Expand All" button beside translations. Conrad.Irwin 17:11, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

Categories
Please add this one to Category:Translation templates. Thanks in advance

--Jerome Potts 17:53, 6 September 2009 (UTC)

Scroll bar
I notice that some entries have the jump template placed inside this template as in:

This causes a scroll bar to appear on the right in Google Chrome browsers, which really looks terrible. Is there any way to fix this? --Yair rand 17:59, 6 September 2009 (UTC)

The scroll bar also appears when superscript is placed inside the template. --Yair rand 02:12, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

Glosses
How can I use gloses in this template ?. (see Help:Glosses)?. I.e. gloss1. --Nopetro 07:48, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

MediaWiki talk:Common.css
--Yair rand 17:48, 14 April 2011 (UTC)

Make it more obvious that the box is expandable
Some possible ways to to this: Thoughts? --Yair rand 19:09, 2 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Add a tooltip to the box, something like "Show translations" or "Click to display translations".
 * Add an arrow to the left side, pointing to the right when collapsed and down when expanded.

How does this work?
Hello, I am admin on the gothic wikipedia and would like to have such a box on a side to display the text in latin alphabet. Could someone explain, how this works? I have already copied the sections from Mediawiki:Common.css and .js and the Template, but still, there is just a box with a title and the text. No top-down menu, no clickable title to show the content, etc. Does anybody know, what I am doing wrong? Thank you veeery much. This is the link to the Template on the gothic wikipedia. Zylbath 12:10, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
 * There's a number of problems in Common.js that are causing it not to work. First of all, the first line of the page is just NavBars, which causes a ReferenceError, breaking the whole thing, so it wouldn't matter what the rest of the content was. Second, it attempts to use newNode without actually having it available. You would need to copy the newNode function from Mediawiki:Common.js to got:Mediawiki:Common.js for this to work. Third, the version of NavTables imported to gotwikt uses the VisibilityToggles script. Either the NavTables script needs to be modified to not use VisibilityToggles, or VisibilityToggles needs to be imported. --Yair rand 00:17, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Hello, I really thank you for your help for so far. I have no copied the VisibilityToggles script and the newMode function into the gothic common.js. I also changed the titles in the script by /*title*/. But still, it doesn't work. Is there maybe anything more to write in the script or have I done anything wrong? I would be really thankful if you answered again. Thank you very much. Zylbath 10:08, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
 * The Gothic Common.js has a else line at the beginning that is not preceded by a if, which is causing an error. This can be fixed by just removing the word else. Also, it looks like the VisibilityToggles script relies on the getCookie and setCookie functions, too. Once those two functions are imported and the first line is fixed, it should work, I think. --Yair rand 10:30, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Hello again. Which "else" do you mean? I cannot find a "else" where is no if behind. There was a "else" from another function I added to display the titles as real titles in javascript. But I took that out. I have now copied the both "Cookie" things, but still, the template isn't working. Maybe it's really because of the "else" I wasn't unable to find yet. Please give me another hind where it is. ;) Zylbath 21:06, 2 February 2012 (UTC)


 * Are you all talking about this page: w:got:MediaWiki:Common.js? —Stephen (Talk) 02:29, 3 February 2012 (UTC)


 * Yes, I do. Why? Did you mean another page? 95.119.238.126 14:14, 4 February 2012 (UTC)
 * w:got:Template:Dropdown is working for me... --Yair rand 13:44, 5 February 2012 (UTC)


 * Oh, quelle miracle! I guess it was just because of my cache? Now it is running, uuuh how lucky I am. I really really really thank you for the big help. With a lucky and happy face, the best greets and liubos goleinis fram thizai wikipaidjai ana gutiskarazdai =) Zylbath 14:31, 6 February 2012 (UTC)

Add an ID?
Perhaps it would be helpful if the NavFrame had an ID attached to it, something like translations-(gloss), so that the tables could be linked to from templates like ? --Yair rand (talk) 05:47, 14 March 2013 (UTC)


 * This breaks HTML validation in pages where there are duplicate IDs. For example, march has invalid HTML because it has two divs with . (There are other validation problems, but they should all be fixed.)


 * I will revert the ID addition. —Michael Z. 2013-06-04 16:43 z 
 * Funny, I thought Mediawiki automatically changes one of the IDs by adding a number to the end if there are duplicates. Apparently not.
 * I suppose we could either modify, or add a function to trans-top to check if {1} equals "Translations to be checked" and not add an id if it does. Would there be any problems with either of those? --Yair rand (talk) 22:23, 4 June 2013 (UTC)


 * I think MediaWiki does that when it generates section-heading IDs from their titles, but not when we provide an ID.


 * I’m not familiar with the details of these templates, but anything that tries to make unique IDs sounds good to me. I suppose there may as many as one per English etymology on a page. Apart from the checktrans sections, I think other translation NavFrames should normally have unique headings. —Michael Z. 2013-06-04 23:10 z 
 * Done. --Yair rand (talk) 08:09, 22 July 2013 (UTC)

Where's the show button
The "Show" button is missing, what gives! 216.15.113.220 23:10, 14 September 2013 (UTC)
 * It looks like an error or bad programming. Add your username here if your think it must be appear. Lagoset (talk) 08:02, 9 September 2014 (UTC)

Show / hide
I cannot see the show / hide when using the template. Code error?. This is the source for the same template in other Wiktionary:

  {|class="wikiObject" style="width:100%; text-align: left;"
 * valign="top" width="50%"|


 * Lagoset (talk) 08:00, 9 September 2014 (UTC)


 * It looks like this is an intermittant bug of unknown origin (unknown to me, anyway). I came here to complain about the same thing just now. By the time I started leaving a comment/question about it, the problem had cleared up. - dcljr (talk) 06:48, 29 December 2015 (UTC)

Would be nice to have auto-sort
It would be nice having the auto-sort property, like the  has. The sortable template could be called just, and it would not need the  ,  , and. I am not sure whether the sorting functionality inside the Template:der3 can be modularized to be used in the proposed new template.--Sae1962 (talk) 10:27, 8 February 2016 (UTC)

link to wikidata item
Most nouns map very well to Wikidata items: octant and Q427293

Similar change could be done to Template:lb. d1g (talk) 11:23, 10 March 2017 (UTC)


 * This has been discussed before. But that's irrelevant. What's really relevant is that you are trying to add a parameter to the template that doesn't do anything yet, and there had been absolutely no discussion anywhere to add such a parameter. --WikiTiki89 19:31, 20 April 2017 (UTC)

In other words, had nothing to say for a month and gave no reason why such harmless parameter couldn't be added. Quite clearly discussion stated by me in March right here. d1g (talk) 01:49, 22 April 2017 (UTC)

Module isn't functional yet, but I see no reason not to enter links or to experiment with new things. d1g (talk) 01:53, 22 April 2017 (UTC)
 * I didn't see this until now, and I didn't realize that when you linked to here from my talk page that this was a month old. --WikiTiki89 02:11, 23 April 2017 (UTC)

I think that the  in the source code is misplaced. --Lambiam 13:43, 17 July 2019 (UTC)

RFD discussion
There is an ongoing discussion about deleting this template. should be added to the template so that the RFD notice which I have added to the documentation page appears on the template page (but I lack the permissions to do this). - <span style="font-family: monospace, monospace;">excarnateSojourner (talk | contrib) 23:04, 5 November 2022 (UTC)

RFD discussion: May 2019–January 2023
It may seem weird to nominate such a widely-used and critical template, but bear with me. Right now, we have templates that automatically split lists into columns, and as a result and its cousins actually contain no template code at all, they're just kept for compatibility. So, why not do the same for translation tables? If is modified to use the automatic columns instead of the current table-based approach, then  becomes obsolete just like. —Rua (mew) 13:55, 6 May 2019 (UTC)
 * Seems reasonable, though we should ensure that the translation adding tool continues to work with whatever changes are made to the  templates. — SGconlaw (talk) 14:21, 6 May 2019 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I seem to remember asking about making our translation tables sort into two columns automatically instead of manually with trans-mid a few years ago, and was told that for now at least manual columns were necessary because otherwise the translation adding tool wouldn't work. If that's been fixed in the meantime, then by all means delete. But if not, first fix the tool. —Mahāgaja · talk 17:56, 6 May 2019 (UTC)
 * Yes, the translation editor is the main roadblock in making this change. Which editor understands it the best right now? Do we have any kind of dedicated JS maintainers? User:Erutuon maybe? —Rua (mew) 14:26, 10 May 2019 (UTC)
 * I've been doing some JavaScript maintenance, as well as User:Dixtosa, who now I think doesn't have as much time to do JavaScript stuff. There are a variety of changes that need to be made to the translation adder, and I've looked at it but not made enough headway in understanding it to implement them. It would at least be a good idea to list the desired changes on the MediaWiki:Gadget-TranslationAdder.js/documentation. — Eru·tuon 17:25, 10 May 2019 (UTC)
 * I've added a "todo" item to the page. I really hope we can find someone to do this. If the gadget is so complicated that nobody can maintain it, then maybe that's a sign we should rewrite it from scratch in a form that we can maintain. —Rua (mew) 17:32, 10 May 2019 (UTC)
 * I agree, this is a sign of bad code quality and/or missing documentation.--So9q (talk) 09:03, 31 August 2019 (UTC)
 * FIX READY :) . I took a deep look at the code and removed the TranslationBalancer function which was the only relying on Template:trans-mid. This change needs to copied to MediaWiki:Gadget-TranslationAdder.js and then we can proceed.--So9q (talk) 19:47, 31 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Note: Remember to edit Entry_layout after the change.
 * But does that mean the TranslationBalancer function will no longer work? That's not a desirable outcome. — SGconlaw (talk) 11:21, 2 September 2019 (UTC)
 * I've applied User:So9q's change to MediaWiki:Gadget-TranslationAdder.js. Now, , and need to be edited so that translations use CSS columns. — Eru·tuon 18:21, 9 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Reverted my edit because new versions of, , , and a plan for implementing them, need to be worked out first. They should be tested using , , . — Eru·tuon 18:39, 9 September 2019 (UTC)
 * The new templates are now ready. Trans-mid/new is not needed. See example here. This CSS needs to go into MediaWiki:Common.css. I could not test if this breaks the TranlationAdder because it does not run on userpages.--So9q (talk) 07:30, 10 September 2019 (UTC)
 * I now also altered the my ImprovedTranslationAdder.js to work when no tables are present in the translation sections by adding this code at line 1365:  This can be tested in User:So9q/sandbox by installing the User:So9q/ImprovedTranslationAdder.js to your commons.js. The TA code hiccups on the /new addition to the trans-top and -bottom and therefore cannot preview/save.--So9q (talk) 12:12, 27 September 2019 (UTC)
 * It relies on "TD" being a parent element in at least one place. After having studied and tried and failed porting the code to jquery for many hours I have concluded that it is a terrible unmaintainable insufficiently commented kludge that would really benefit from a good rewrite in modern es6 with jquery, functional let-syntax and good inline documentation. The idea behind this add-on to mediawiki is really sound which is proven by the fact that it is in use in many wiktionaries by now. For the benefit of the whole community I hope someone will step up to this task.--So9q (talk) 04:00, 29 September 2019 (UTC)


 * Yes, if the change is done then delete. It saves work for humans and bots. Fay Freak (talk) 15:09, 10 May 2019 (UTC)
 * Deprecate or keep this wery widely used template: keep revision histories legible. --Dan Polansky (talk) 13:10, 31 August 2019 (UTC)
 * @Dan Polansky I don't understand: how would deleting the template make revision histories illegible? &mdash; <span style="font-family: monospace, monospace;">excarnateSojourner (talk &middot; contrib) 19:18, 16 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Keep this deprecated template in some form that minimizes impairment to legibility of edit history. By the same token, we should restore other common old templates, like to support edit-history legibility. DCDuring (talk) 14:32, 29 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Sure, keep for history legibility. Ultimateria (talk) 23:56, 13 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Deprecate. Imetsia (talk) 00:06, 14 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Deprecate so that it’s easier to add the translation table. ·~   dictátor · mundꟾ  16:10, 3 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Deprecate. Archaic faff that's easily replaceable. Theknightwho (talk) 17:05, 27 April 2022 (UTC)

I'm closing this as RFD-deprecate as the template is now redundant and can be safely removed (see WT:NFE). However, it is used in hundreds of thousands of entries, and removing it from these entries en masse will be a huge task. Let's be certain that that is what we want to do before we do it. I suggest we wait at least 2 weeks before beginning this process. This, that and the other (talk) 08:10, 2 January 2023 (UTC)


 * As it has now been two weeks with no objections raised, I suggest we begin the process of removing trans-mid from all pages. Theknightwho (talk) 08:15, 16 January 2023 (UTC)
 * @Theknightwho get with it, you're a whole 5 minutes late 😛
 * @Benwing2 I was thinking about this the other day; because this will touch 120,000+ pages, perhaps some of the other changes envisaged in might be completed simultaneously to minimise bot noise? Or should we just go ahead and do this by itself. This, that and the other (talk) 08:37, 16 January 2023 (UTC)
 * I think it's fine to just do this by itself; it will complicate things to try and clean up some of the other templates at the same time, and the translation templates don't specifically co-occur with column templates so there might not be too much overlap. Benwing2 (talk) 08:41, 16 January 2023 (UTC)
 * @Benwing2 That's fair. Let it be WingerBot's next triumph! This, that and the other (talk) 09:29, 16 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Running now, give it a few hours. Benwing2 (talk) 22:39, 16 January 2023 (UTC)
 * The bot run is finished. I added an abuse filter to prevent people adding trans-mid on new pages. However, this is the first abuse filter I've created and I'm not sure whether I did it right, e.g. what does it mean when both "warn" and "disallow" are checked? Can one of you review it? Benwing2 (talk) 07:09, 17 January 2023 (UTC)
 * @Benwing2 this is awesome work! It's great to finally be rid of this template!!
 * I fixed the abuse filter to use a custom warning MediaWiki:Abusefilter-warning-trans-mid. The abuse filter ill warn the user when they first click Save, and if they try to save it a second time without removing trans-mid, it will formally disallow their edit. This, that and the other (talk) 11:04, 17 January 2023 (UTC)

For future
Instead of reverting back to the previous version, just try to make it so that the version I created is unbroken. 2601:C6:D281:6710:D949:2A98:CE54:6046 00:43, 1 October 2023 (UTC)