User talk:A. T. Galenitis

I have not been very active on wiktionary lately, but I strive to keep an eye out for any updates on this page – so feel free to engage with me here. ⇒A. T. Galenitis (talk) 17:44, 16 March 2024 (UTC)

n.b.: Older conversations (pre-2023) have been commented out (still visible in the source) to keep things less cluttered. <!--Welcome!

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Again, welcome! 2021.06.15. Wiktionary

Welcome
Welcome A. T. Galenitis and thank your for contributions, very imperssive, complete in every way. I do some work on modern greek. Note, (referring to your γουδί), that DSMG dictionary writes mediaeval greek in monotonic, while here in en.wikt it is written in polytonic (hence «'γδί» or «'γδίν» forms of ἰγδίον Κριαράς Med.Dict, also monotonic). Katharevousa is supposed to be polytonic, I guess, and I usually consult old dictionaries (pre1960) for it. Looking forward for you chemistry journey in wiktionary. Happy edits! &#8209;&#8209;Sarri.greek &#9835; | 18:42, 15 June 2021 (UTC)


 * Thank you heartily for your welcome and kind comments! By no means a philologist myself, it is very helpful (and interesting) to have such details pointed out—I will now bear this in mind for future endeavours. Sincere thanks for the format corrections, too, I'm still at an early stage of learning the wiktionary markup, which certainly has a cryptic feel to it at times. Will be pleased if we happen to work on the same lemma in the future.
 * –A. T. Galenitis (talk) 07:00, 16 June 2021 (UTC)


 * Κύριε A. T. Γαληνίτη (el:w:Γαληνίτης)), it took me one year to edit the way you did :) By the way: my ancient greek is school-level, so, I cannot help with it. But your ancient creations seem perfect as well. &#8209;&#8209;Sarri.greek &#9835; | 07:07, 16 June 2021 (UTC)


 * Ευχαριστώ πάρα πολύ! That is certainly most encouraging to hear from such an experienced editor :) With my wishes, A. T. Galenitis (talk) 07:19, 16 June 2021 (UTC) (who is indeed etymologically related to a certain mineral!)

Welcome! Another thing: You should avoid duplication. For example Modern does not need an etymology except referring to the Ancient Greek forms, because we already have all at . Otherwise the stories can get out of sync: Man changes an etymology and does not notice it having being copied elsewhither, where then an older copy persists. You can use to categorize by origin languages instead if this is what you wanted—also easier for you! Fay Freak (talk) 14:38, 16 June 2021 (UTC)


 * Thank you for bringing this to my attention and for pointing out this quite useful template (indeed fitting for what I was attempting)—I should henceforth be more careful!
 * –A. T. Galenitis (talk) 15:39, 16 June 2021 (UTC)

dercat
Thank you  for dercat, I didn't know this template. It keeps the der.der.der category line. But the main reason of avoiding repetition (which is: if the etymology changes at step 1 or 2, there is no way of knowning it) is still a problem. We assume that an editor who makes drastic changes, would update all related pages. But for derivatives such as κουμαριά, I think, one does not need to give the etymology of the base word, here the base word of the donnor language. Par exemple, at lemma τσίγκινος: τσίγκ(ος) + ινος._ no need to etymologise τσίγκος. I am curious about your sources for languages (like ottoman or persian) in etymologies, also for some greek terms. I had a hard time finding them (e.g. dialectal κουραμιά) or local names of plants etc.  &#8209;&#8209;Sarri.greek &#9835; | 13:21, 18 June 2021 (UTC)


 * Καλημέρα, thanks for dropping by! Indeed, even with the very useful that I only learned from the previous discussion on this page, it seems the dynamical nature of a collaborative effort like Wiktionary has the kismet of suffering from this ripple effect.
 * I am therefore trying to be more cautious in my more recent edits, and I appreciate when I am informed on how to improve their style :)


 * Regarding my sources: for general Modern Greek –as you may have noticed– I have a strong liking for ΛΚΝ; for ancient Greek, LSJ (including the multiple inegrated online utilities) is my anchor, and EDG for further etymology; for Turkish and Ottoman Turkish, my basis is Güncel Türkçe Sözlük and other dictionaries offered by the, the completeness of which is enviable.


 * Finally, for the botanical terms, I admit my source is more esoteric –that would be the book "Οπωροφόρες Λέξεις" by Ν. Σαραντάκος. It is a delightful and well-researched read on some botanical terminology/etymology/dialectal-historical use in Greek, and in the future I would like to contribute more relevant material (as I have based on the chapter on κούμαρα). For that in particular, other than the dialectal form μεμαίντζουλο (a rare but verifiable find by Sarantakos, descendant of μεμαίκυλον), the rest of the terms are uncommon but I can still find with a quick search e.g. in the.
 * –Regards, A. T. Galenitis (talk) 09:37, 19 June 2021 (UTC)


 * Thank you very much . If you wish, you may list your refs either with ref ref or, easier, under Further reading. It would assure the reader that the terms were not added unchecked. The sarantakos pages -although a private website- are allowed as ref exceptionally at el.wiktionary. I presume, it would be ok here as well. Your work is admirable. &#8209;&#8209;Sarri.greek &#9835; | 09:49, 19 June 2021 (UTC)


 * Thank you once more! And yes, that's a fair point, I really should clean up my lemmata by adding some more references for the rarer terms... –A. T. Galenitis (talk) 10:13, 19 June 2021 (UTC)

γράνα
Good morning - thanks so much for helping us incease the coverage of Greek. I am not Greek and am therefore reluctant to criticise. I have to rely on dictionaries and Βικιλεξικό, "Γράνα" seems to be absent from my Greek dictionaries but my English:Greek dictionary, and Βικι (γράνα) seem to agree that the genitive plural has stress on the final syllable - although Google seems to show that some people (about 25%) agree with your declension. So should we have both forms? — Salt  marsh  🢃  06:30, 31 October 2021 (UTC)


 * Hello and thank you very much for your nice words, as well as for keeping an eye on my contributions (and inevitable occasional oversights). On the gen. pl. of γράνα, the dialectal Arcadian origin of the word might allow a paroxytone form, though arguably -and as you have found- the word has been assimilated in Standard Modern Greek so γρανών would be more appropriate. Thanks for pointing this out! –A. T. Galenitis (talk) 19:08, 31 October 2021 (UTC)


 * I think that you should modify the entry if you think that it needs it. My Greek is solely dictionary based so I also need keeping an eye on! Incidentally I was a chemist - now retired - so we might be able to coordinate something. Cheers — Salt  marsh  🢃  19:16, 31 October 2021 (UTC)


 * Just added a note on the declension section for completeness :) And it's always lovely to meet a fellow chemist, I have always wanted to eventually undertake a more systematic expansion of chemistry-related Greek lemmata. –Yours, A. T. Galenitis (talk) 19:24, 31 October 2021 (UTC)


 * Thanks, and yes please! — Salt  marsh  🢃  13:00, 4 November 2021 (UTC)

νίτρωση
Hi — does νίτρωση mean nitration (C6H6 ➤ C6H5NO2) and nitrification? thanks — Salt  marsh  🢃  07:34, 22 November 2021 (UTC)


 * Hello ! As far as I am aware, νίτρωση is in common usage solely for aromatic nitration reactions (like the one you mentioned); for the biochemical process I would feel most comfortable using αζωτοδέσμευση (though strictly that is nitrogen fixation as a whole), while the technical term for the NH3→NO3- step apparently is νιτροποίηση. Hope that helps! –A. T. Galenitis (talk) 20:20, 22 November 2021 (UTC)


 * Ευχαριστώ πολύ — Salt  marsh  🢃  05:47, 23 November 2021 (UTC)

τζιγέρι
Hello! I am reading your excellent work. About. I propose that the main lemma be (which is the standard pronunciation  or, similar to Turkish pronunciation for . The expressions of endearment τζιέρι μου! and the figurative phrases like μου 'φαγες τα τζιέρια, I have heard only with 'τζιέρι'.  My mother was from Constantinople and she never used the variant τζιγέρι. Which is probably why  and  have  as first choice. Thank you! &#8209;&#8209;Sarri.greek &#9835; I 05:25, 9 May 2022 (UTC)


 * Hello, good to hear from you! I guess I created arbitrarily based on my own dialect; in Thrace and Eastern Macedonia I have only found it as  and the derived dish always  (I assume this was due to earlier Ottoman  and the greater influence of Slavic  over Modern Turkish ). But since the major dictionaries give the other form as the main one, this is a fair point! A. T. Galenitis (talk) 11:43, 9 May 2022 (UTC)
 * yes, for . About your dialect: I did not guess that you are a native speaker (I guessed you were a bilingual or a descendant of a speaker of greek). Thank you!&#8209;&#8209;Sarri.greek &#9835; I 16:57, 9 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Κι όμως! Γενικά αποφεύγω να γράφω στα ελληνικά ώστε να είναι πιο προσβάσιμες οι συζητήσεις και τα λήμματα (συνεισφέρω, άλλωστε, αποκλειστικά σε αγγλόφωνη βικιπαίδεια και βικιλεξικό). Περί διαλέκτου, ομολογώ έχω μια ροπή προς τη λημματογράφηση όρων ιδιαίτερα κοινών στα βορειοελλαδίτικα ιδιώματα, που νιώθω δεν εκπροσωπούνται αρκετά σε πολλά λεξικά...εξού και η διαρκής προτίμησή μου για το ΛΚΝ! A. T. Galenitis (talk) 21:53, 10 May 2022 (UTC)

Username
Of course, I would never, ever intervene on a private matter, as the choice of username. If you ever feel that it is difficult to type the A. T., I see that Galenitis@CentralAuth is not used at the moment. If you ever consider it, the username renamings are done at https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:GlobalRenameRequest. The usual αιτιολόγηση is 'difficult to type'. &#8209;&#8209;Sarri.greek &#9835; I 21:06, 17 May 2022 (UTC)


 * Ευχαριστώ για την επισήμανση! I have actually considered shortening the username before, but I'm still undecided—I will of course let you know if I do it eventually :)
 * (another thing: I might not be very active on wiktionary in the coming weeks but worry not, it is only a temporary break) A. T. Galenitis (talk) 21:49, 17 May 2022 (UTC)

μαβής
May I ask, this impressive paragraph has no ref author's name. Is it a quotation from some PhD or article? &#8209;&#8209;Sarri.greek &#9835; I 21:30, 19 May 2022 (UTC)


 * @Sarri.greek καλημέρα! I wrote the paragraph myself as a summary of the evidence and arguments provided in this article by Sarantakos (whom you may suspect I read avidly), which is in turn mostly based on the article: . It is a very interesting read for an issue which initially seemed quite odd (modern use disregarding the etymological meaning and dictionaries going as far as describing the sea of Cavafy or Seferis as..."mauve"). Thanks for pointing out, now I have added both of these as references in the lemma. A. T. Galenitis (talk) 09:05, 20 May 2022 (UTC)


 * Thank you for the details and edited here. Normally, I do not do etymologies in wiktionaries, bur here are a few points about sources and refs, as I have seen them around (our director is more familiar with the policies involved and perhaps could help, by reviewing these points).
 * checking refs found in other refs:
 * 1. We give refs for specific piece of information. After defintion 1 (αρχική σημασία initial sesne) "blue, dark blue" (ref all dictionaries which include it +quotations Cavafis, especially for the eyes) and sense 2 ("purple")+refs. So that it is clear to the reader, which dictionary gives both.
 * 2. If you like, when giving a derivation from Otoman it is useful to add in parenthesis the {m|tr|mavi} turkish as well which usually has sources too.
 * 3. I cannot find a μαβής or μαβύς lemma at pdf of Πρωία Dictionary@anemi.
 * 4. The ref is for "μαβύς, -ιά, -ύ"  includes +μενεξεδένιος. «ὁ ἔχων χρῶμα βαθὺ κυανοῦν, ὁ μενεξεδένιος, ά[λλως] γερανὺς ἢ γεράνιος βλ[έπε]λ[έξη]»=βαθύ κυανούν followed by 3 examples for textiles and clothes.
 * 5. the ref does not say anything about the influence of French mauve. it is only 2 lines: μαβής «γαλάζιος, μπλε» < τουρκ. mavi < αραβ.....
 * 6 The phrase «linguistically conservative sources...REF.{R:Babiniotis 2008}» is a personal opinion (with which we agree) but could be mentioned, I think, only in Talk pages or Rooms.(but here the cause is different, cf Sarantakos). I have not seen an Appendix with reviews of dictionaries in en.wikt. Which would need to take in account a.the date of composition and publication of the dictionary, b.what it promises to include at its title (e.g. Mod.Greek -i.e. Katharevousa, traditional Demotic and Standard Modern Greek- versus dictionaries that cover only Standard Mod.G., like  & c. linking to a review of the named dictionary, with statistics and examples demostrating its conservativism.
 * 7. I would write something like: ++"According to SarantakosREF here" the sense "blue" is used by speakers who are more familiar with the Turkish and/or its literary use in Greek while the later (perhaps post WWII) sense "purple" under the infulence of the phonetically similar   from French  -  KechagioglouREFHERE αποδίδει the discrepancy to dictionaries' αμέλεια/αστοχία/..?.  -I have not read his article; perhaps it could be placed under 'Further reading' section.-
 * Personally, I use the word for dark blue (eyes like Elizabety Taylor's, similar to ζαφειρένιος), or like the sky's colour just before sunrise, turning from black to dark blue/with few purple ανταύγειες. I also use plural "μαβιά χρώματα" for the colours of the spectrum between blue and ιώδες as in the sunset's colours. Thank you, sorry for my πολυλογία &#8209;&#8209;Sarri.greek &#9835; I 14:03, 20 May 2022 (UTC)
 * @Sarri.greek useful scholia, your far greater experience is always a valuable guide! I have followed carefully and reordered/fixed the referencing to accurately portray which dictionary gives each meaning. On specific points:
 * 1. hope this looks good now!
 * 2. added a mention of for comparison
 * 3. initial had the same issue; so, Πρωία published the Επίτομον εγκυκλοπαιδικόν λεξικόν in 1932, but then also the Λεξικόν της νέας ελληνικής γλώσσης in 1933
 * 4. indeed, as far as I am aware Dimitrakos is the first written mention of the second meaning
 * 5. sorry, wrong position of ref, now fixed
 * 6. removed the "linguistically conservative" comment for now, but such an Appendix sounds like a very good idea (imagine an unsuspecting learner of the language seeing e.g. in Babiniotis and believing it to be standard)
 * 7. hopefully fixed with the current version of the paragraph
 * Regarding my personal use, I would use it as a dark shade of blue (definitely not any light ); your comparison with the dark blue sky before sunrise seems very apt. It feels entirely strange to me to use it for purplish colours (other than the phonetic similarity and unjustified confusion with ), but language is very much a living and ferocious organism and it appears that the latter meaning is becoming the primary one... Thanks for the good discussion on this, yours - A. T. Galenitis (talk) 15:34, 20 May 2022 (UTC)


 * Thank you for your response, and thank you for the Πρωία link!! You are great. &#8209;&#8209;Sarri.greek &#9835; I 15:59, 20 May 2022 (UTC)-->

Could you please help
Mr Galenitis! I hope you are well. If possible, could you please help, and cast votes at Requests_for_moves,_mergers_and_splits at the rename and at the split section? I would appreciate it so much. Thank you, &#8209;&#8209;Sarri.greek &#9835; I 06:01, 9 February 2024 (UTC)


 * Χαίρετε @Sarri.greek! Συγνώμη, I really haven't been active on wiktionary for a while. But if not too late, let me know what I can do to help, I am so glad to see this going forward again. Wish you the best, A. T. Galenitis (talk) 15:59, 16 March 2024 (UTC)


 * So nice to hear from you, Mr Galenitis. No problem, I know that you are not around most of the time. As for Med.Gr proposal, it is lingering, as all things at WT:Requests. Of course, it would help to have the opinion of someone that actually knows and edits Medieval Greek! Thank you! &#8209;&#8209;Sarri.greek &#9835; I 16:13, 16 March 2024 (UTC)

Actually, Mr the talk is too long... the votes are at Rename section and at Split section Thank you, again &#8209;&#8209;Sarri.greek &#9835; I 16:18, 16 March 2024 (UTC)


 * @Sarri.greek done! Added only some very brief comments on the discussion, because I believe all major points have been already excellently covered (and stubborn ears will always listen the other way). I will make sure to follow the developments more closely now, and thank you very much for your insistence once again! A. T. Galenitis (talk) 17:19, 16 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Thank you, especially for your comment! If they implement it, I already have my notes for changes. I would not bother you at all. But if you ever have time to supervise some of the work done, I would feel safer. I intend to open a workpage with proposals for handling the 'learned MedGr' (of authors writing in Koine) and the 'vulgar' main MedGr of 11th+centuries including Early Modern Greek 1453-1669. e.g. preparing a User:Sarri.greek/About Medieval Greek. Thank you again, &#8209;&#8209;Sarri.greek &#9835; I 17:26, 16 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Just had a brief look, that is very impressive work @Sarri.greek! Will be happy to keep an eye out and help with the practicals once the final decision is hopefully made. A. T. Galenitis (talk) 17:44, 16 March 2024 (UTC)