User talk:Afc0703/Archives/2010

Use of etyl template
Just a heads up, we don't use when the ancestor and target languages are the same (the other templates such as  or  suffice). So I've removed all instances of. Cheers. --Bequw → ¢ • τ 10:01, 4 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Ok, good to know. Thanks! --Afc0703 16:40, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

Phonemic pronunciation
Please note: Phonemic pronunciations should be enclosed between slashes. Square brackets are used in IPA for specific phonetic transcriptions, not for the sort of general phonemic transcriptions we normally prefer on Wiktionary. --EncycloPetey 06:09, 1 March 2010 (UTC)

Also please note this consolidation. We don't use multiply indented pronunciation forms when the UK and US pronunciations are identical. We also do not use /r/ for English r; this is by a community vote. It is an important distinction, since /r/ does exist in some regional English dialects. --EncycloPetey 06:13, 1 March 2010 (UTC)


 * Many of your questions can be answered only with a note that WT:PRON is still considered a "draft". Parts of it accurately describe current practice, but other parts describe former practices, and some parts have been experimentally written by one or two individuals seeking particular changes to Wiktionary practice.  So, while it is more useful to have WT:PRON than nothing at all, it is also important to keep in mind that it is not a policy page, and would benefit from additional discussion and revision. --EncycloPetey 03:40, 3 March 2010 (UTC)

Re:Sicilian pronunciation
Hi! Pardon in advance for my imperfect English. However, yeah I speak the Messinese dialect which is enough different than the Trapanese. The Messina variant belongs to the eastern sicilian (like reggino dialect[almost the same variant] and catanese) on the contrary to the trapanese which belongs to te westerns (palermitano for ex.). There are many differencies between them especially in the terms and their pronunciation. However i believe (sorry for the dubts but Sicily is so various) that the particularities of the sicilian language are the same. Speaking about the phonology: the use of ʃ for the diptong -ci- is wrong, 'cos the real IPA sound is ç, like ʒ is wrong for initial r- or rr- but the real is ʐ. I know the pronunciation of my dialect and in general of all Standardized Sicilian but for Trapanese in particular i don't know too much sorry... however if you'd want an aid, just a message and i answer ok? ciao see you soon :) --Zoologo 18:47, 5 March 2010 (UTC)
 * No,man, it hasn't this sound. My dialect is influnced by the "sea": while the rest of Sicily was isolated, Messina was one of the most important harbour of Mediterranean area (during the Normans was capital of the reign). In this way, Messina had a strong relationship with the Republic of Genoa.

.This influences are called Toscanism (i don't know why ...), and are: the complete absence of rhotacism while in the other all sicilian dialects is present this phaenomenon: I say "ridiri" /ˈɾɪd̪ɨɾɪ/ while ,for example, a catanese says "ririri" /rɪɾɪɾɪ/; another phenom. is the permanence of the b: if I say "baviari" /bːaˈvjaɾɪ/ "to dribble", a catanese says "vaviari" /vaˈvjaɾɪ/. More, -rr- are /rː/, normally... Continuing the eastern and central dialects have phen. of lenition: t becames d, p=b, k=g ... Another particularity of my (and reggino) dialect is the absence of the reflexive, replaced by a particle "mi" /mɨ/ before the pronouns:
 * Standard Sicilian: Jimu a curcàrini ("We go to bed" [imperative])
 * Messinese dialect:  Annamu mi ni cuccamu  (Particle ni means us)

Finally, the presence of "a" before a verb makes a sense of command in my dialect... for now it's all, I hope it'd help you. Saluti--Zoologo 20:08, 8 March 2010 (UTC)

RE:sapemu, errors
Hi Afc0703, I thank you a lot for all the Sicilian words you wrote in this wiktionary, you do a very good work! Don't worry for what you did with sapemu (and the ghost of sacciu), this always happens to me... ;-) On the other hand, yes I listed some possible errors because ones of them have an unuseful accent and other ones of them have a lack of written accent. I do not know what we should do with all these "imperfect terms". Perhaps we should remove the wrong entries and keep only the correct ones, but I do not want create a war here: so it is not really a matter if in en.wiktionary you use phonetic forms as entries because you call it "alternative spellings". Best regards. --Sarvaturi 07:50, 11 March 2010 (UTC)

IPA norms
Please note. When there is a primary stress marker, IPA does not also mark a syllable break. The primary stress marker automatically implies a break in the syllable. --EncycloPetey 03:50, 30 April 2010 (UTC)
 * I understand. I just thought that the syllable breaks might help to unify the stress marker with the syllable it modifies. It's possible that the average user might find it confusing that the enPR transcriptions place the stress markers after the stressed syllable whereas IPA and SAMPA place them before the stressed syllable. I realize, though, that it's a bit redundant to those who are well versed in IPA. Is this same practice also discouraged in SAMPA (I noticed you didn't change it in the edit)? --Andrew C talk (afc0703) 04:41, 30 April 2010 (UTC)
 * I suspect so, because SAMPA is supposed to be a straight transcription of IPA. However, I don't know SAMPA rules and norms, and usually ignore SAMPA whenever I see it. --EncycloPetey 04:46, 30 April 2010 (UTC)
 * That makes sense. I have to agree about ignoring SAMPA; were it not for backwards compatibility issues I'd probably stop transcribing it altogether. Thanks for the heads up. --Andrew C talk (afc0703) 05:05, 30 April 2010 (UTC)

Trascrizioni IPA della lingua siciliana
Ciao Andrew, grazie per il tuo messaggio, adesso tutte le discussioni che riguardano la trascrizione IPA del siciliano si trovano in questa pagina: Talk IPA for Sicilian (nella quale ti ho risposto) e ti invito a leggere la pagina "IPA for Sicilian" (aspetto i tuoi commenti). Salutamu! --Sarvaturi 18:22, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

Sicilian IPA and Sicilian roots
Hi Andrew, thanks for the fast answer you wrote, I have answered you There. Read you soon. Best regards. --Sarvaturi 18:17, 10 June 2010 (UTC)


 * Thank you for your answer, I also answered you there. Salutamu! --Sarvaturi 21:36, 13 June 2010 (UTC)