User talk:BD2412/Archive 2

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Same page links
Take a look at how I semi-reverted the edits you made to the bodybuilder page. Do you see that this will be helpful for pages that grow long and have several languages on them? --EncycloPetey 19:38, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
 * I see. If they were like that in the first place, I wouldn't have messed with 'em. bd2412 T 19:44, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Yeah. It's something I hadn't known how to do when I started creating entries. I try to link this way now, though. --EncycloPetey 21:39, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

Notice
Good day, and congratulations with your new buttons. Wiktionary cabal, welcome to the. — Vildricianus 19:54, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

Template
There is a template, which you can use to indicate the past tense AND the past participle of a verb, e.g. mailed. It doesn't work for forms like ran and was, because their simple past and past participle are different; but for most verbs it will do.
 * Excellent! Thank you. bd2412 T 01:24, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

Resolution
I will take back my comments as well. I do regrete not takeing the time to explain myselfKisida 16:27, 5 September 2006 (UTC)


 * This nearly intelligible rant is probably a misplaced rewrite of this response to this revert. Rod (A. Smith) 06:36, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
 * No one's English is this bad - it's either Babelfish or a troll looking for attention. Probably the latter, as his userpage had sentences in good English. bd2412 T 16:44, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
 * At any rate, this user has requested that his account be deleted,, and I've fulfilled that request. bd2412 T 17:48, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

I know my spelling was incorrect; my spell check was not working properly, and if I seemed frustrated; that’s because I am, and it is my responsibility to inform you that your choice of words are considered offensive to me as we have discussed before. If this can’t be settled in a mature sense it is my obligation to request mediation. I am not here to insult or be insulted, if you feel I have insulted you, I have a talk page for that. In regards to deleting my user page was a request that would not be carried out by one person, rather Wiki as a whole could make that decision if appropriate. The question regarding my English: I went to school in USA, and typing was not available to me so my poor appearance is do to lack of PC-typing skills. I don’t believe that should discredit my intentions I find these comments (it's either Babel fish or a troll looking for attention) are the reason we are having this discussion in the first place. After I was declared to be dubious I decided to end any discussions with anyone making accusations like that. It was you that re-invited me for discussion. Lets just make peace and not talk any more, or about each other. Kisida 15:31, 5 September 2006 (UTC).
 * Ok. bd2412 T 17:52, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

English header
Um... A lot of your recent edits have left off the English language header from the page. --EncycloPetey 20:01, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
 * I see the two that you fixed... any others? bd2412 T 20:06, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
 * I haven't made a thorough check, nor did I see any systematic error on your part. It's just something to watch for. --EncycloPetey 20:49, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
 * It's a quirk of using a shortcut template. I'll be careful of that in the future. Thanks! bd2412 T 20:50, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

Breaking the law, Part II
In case you're still busy as feck, I've got another question regarding lawlessness, here: Basic English Word List, as mentioned here. Is it a vio? — Vildricianus 09:23, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
 * I'll look at it... in about twelve hours. Cheers! bd2412 T 13:41, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Ok, more like 24... <i style="background:lightgreen">bd2412</i> T 03:47, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

Blocky
Hi BD. You can block me again if you like. Not that it will achiece much in the long run. See you back in a few days. --86.134.42.189 22:54, 6 September 2006 (UTC)
 * How odd a message, given that I have never yet blocked anyone on Wiktionary. <i style="background:lightgreen">bd2412</i> T 22:56, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

postface
You deleted "postface" so it's probably not a real word. Therefore, what is the opposite of a "preface"? I looked in a thesaurus but without much luck. --24.255.155.100 04:05, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Isn't the opposite end of a preface an epilogue? Perhaps an afterword? <i style="background:lightgreen">bd2412</i> T 04:05, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
 * No, epilogue and afterword have their own antonyms (prologue and foreword). But I've never heard the word postface before...that's odd. 216.11.222.21 17:32, 13 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Indeed you are correct. <i style="background:lightgreen">bd2412</i> T 20:27, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

From User:ConnelMacKenzieBot I used replace.py to one-by-one change the bulk of the obvious ones. I left the multiword-terms (where "singular=" needs to be switched to "sg=") and terms that looked like they don't meet CFI. I think AWB is better suited for the remaining edits. Sorry if I stepped on your foot there. --Connel MacKenzie 17:52, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Not at all - glad to see the job done. Having all nouns on the same template will make it much easier to address them collectively. <i style="background:lightgreen">bd2412</i> T 18:19, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

Wikiquote prank
Connel MacKenzie reverted the prank "HELP!" posting from (who was incompetently impersonating Kalki) before I had a chance to add the true sig/timestamp and comment on it. Just so you know, I've raised the question of how Wiktionary handles impersonation pranks like this at Information desk. ~ Jeff Q 01:34, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

Derogatory stereotype: excellent comment
"Then at the very least, the etymology should be corrected to reflect the fact that this is not derived from actual Chinese Pidgin English, but from a derogatory stereotype of such a speech pattern" -- Well done. He clearly missed the hint in your earlier quotation. It's been niggling me all afternoon, but I couldn't think of the right thing to say. --Enginear 17:55, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

better fjord etym.
Thanks! —scs 21:35, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Oh, don't thank me, I just copied what was on Wikipedia (after verifying and cleaning it up, of course). <i style="background:lightgreen">bd2412</i> T 23:23, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

yuè
Hey, I noticed you filled out the page for yuè, but I have no idea what "yuè" means, is, or represents. Is there any more information that could be added to the page so that I, who do not speak Mandarin, can understand "yuè" better? - TheDaveRoss 06:17, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Well, it's hard - yuè is a pinyin transliteration of a large number of Chinese characters. It only has meaning inin context, like for example the English sound "fa" - which could be part of father or farm or (phonetically) fodder. I intend to provide meanings for the transliterated characters - after I have a basic article for each of the 1,415 pinyin transliterations. It's a long-term project, but will get done eventually. <i style="background:lightgreen">bd2412</i> T 13:23, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Sounds good, I just have no clue what anything in that article means! :) Also, I would like to point out to anyone who hasn't voted yet that there are at least four votes going on at the moment that everyone has a vested interest in, 4 Checkusers, 2 Admins, 1 new logo and 1 boardmember, the more the merrier when it comes to these votes, especially the checkusers which requires 25 votes before anyone can be appointed, and the board vote which determines the course of Wikimedia! - TheDaveRoss 15:41, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

Pinyin
Hi ... I've been thinking that the category really ought to be Mandarin pinyin ...

Yes, "pinyin" isn't very ambiguous. But we have (e.g.) Japanese kanji, where "kanji" isn't ambiguous either. With a few thousand languages, many of which have various POS and script form categories, IMHO it would be good if they all started with the language name? (Besides which, Pinyin is a West African language. Category:Pinyin really ought to be words in that Pinyin!)

Quite a few of your entries are also going to end up with sections for Min Nan POJ, Cantonese Jyutping, and others: Hakka, Wu, Jinyu, Gan, Xiang, Min Dong, Min Bei, Min Zhong. Hakka Pinyin is not Mandarin Pinyin ...

I do hope that when you subst: the template it leaves a new template on the definition line that includes the category? Robert Ullmann 15:09, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
 * It does for the Pinyin number system transliterations, but I don't subst anything for the actual Pinyin articles - I can do it with AWB later on tonight. <i style="background:lightgreen">bd2412</i> T 15:11, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
 * That was fast ;-) My last comment means when someday you subst:pinyin-n it should put in a new template that generates "Alternate spelling of ..." and has the category? Robert Ullmann 15:24, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
 * That's reasonable - I'll do it when I get to the subst point. <i style="background:lightgreen">bd2412</i> T 15:28, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

I've taken the liberty of messing with your template; created a form-of template for the definition line (Connel made a similar point infra while I was sitting thinking about it ...) feel free to change it. (note the CSS span whatever magic ;-) Robert Ullmann 21:25, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

I see several problems with this template.


 * 1) The template name starts with an upper case character.
 * 2) It includes a language heading within the template.
 * 3) It includes a non-standard ===Pinyin=== heading (that I thought was going away)
 * 4) It includes a third level heading within the template.
 * 5) It doesn't subst: the PAGENAME variable when it should.
 * 6) It is missing the normal editing line breaks.
 * 7) It makes a reasonable (but invalid) assumption about target sections.
 * 8) It doesn't use  when it should.
 * 9) If it were to be used as a preload template, it would be called  or similar.  It would always be either subst:'ed or simply called from the MediaWiki:Nogomatch page.

--Connel MacKenzie 19:20, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
 * The template is a temporary stopgap measure until the 1,415 pinyin number-system entries are done. Judging by the amount of blue on User:BD2412/Pinyin by number, I think I'm over 1/3 of the way done, and progressing at a good clip. When I have all the entries done, I'll modify the template to include whatever the final form should be for the entries, and subst them all in (at which point the template will become superfluous and will be deleted). I intend to introduce the template  and subst: the PAGENAME variables at that point, and then go back through and individually address the handful of transliterations that only stand for one character. I imagine we'll resolve the non-standard Pinyin heading before then as well, but I'm not sure what else to do with it, because the numbered pinyin entries (like the regular pinyin entries) are merely agreed phonetic indicators that may stand for words in any part of speech. <i style="background:lightgreen">bd2412</i> T 19:30, 12 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Sounds like a fairly reasonable approach. I'd prefer you rename the template to follow the "new_{lang}_{function}" naming scheme, and not delete it when you are done.  (But yes, certainly subst: them all.)
 * It is good to hear some progress is being made on the "===Pinyin===" issue; I haven't followed that closely, myself. But I hope "we" decide against it.
 * By the way, most of the links on your sub-page appear brown to me; that is, below the stub-threshold. About 1/3 are red.  Only these entries: a1, a2. a3, a5, e2, ren3 and ren4 are blue.  --Connel MacKenzie 20:25, 12 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Connel, this template is totally temporary; so the name doesn't really matter. Likewise having headers within, etc. (I don't understand your comment about subst: with PAGENAME, as it doesn't do anything inside a template? Outside it is harmless?) We shouldn't need it at all later, we'll keep the form-of template. (see comment supra). I agree that ===Pinyin=== should change; but we do need something along the lines of "Hiragana character" et al. Maybe it should be "Pinyin Syllable"? What do you mean by "reasonable assumption about target sections"? Robert Ullmann 21:39, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
 * It would be more efficient to just create a new template at a new name when this process is done than to rename the existing one, which is already in an extensive number of articles - I think the links are showing up to you as substubs precisely because they contain nothing but the template and the target word of the alternate spelling. <i style="background:lightgreen">bd2412</i> T 23:15, 12 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Renaming the template now has no effect on the existing entries (as long as the redirect is not tampered with.)
 * If you wait until after they are all subst:'ed, what would be the point of not moving the template to the correct name?
 * The links are substubs, yes because of the tiny size. My view of your one sub-page is not of concern but rather, at least three other parts of MediaWiki software that are affected by their creation and presence.  One example: Special:Shortpages is mostly pooched now.
 * When "the process is done" the resulting entries should not have <tt> </tt> in them, but the actual entry title instead.  Since the template in question is a "subst:ing" template, the <tt>&lt;includeonly&gt;</tt> trick should be used inside that template, right before subst:ing them all.
 * Out of ignorance, I shall try to refrain from saying anything more about the ===Pinyin=== heading. Perhaps it is the best approach: I know I have no clear idea whether it is, or not..
 * If the template has taken days/weeks/months to flesh out to everyone's mutual disatisfaction, it would be curteous to leave the template around, at the proper Template:new_... name. A year from now, someone will innocently come along and try adding tone characters again (as someone tried last year, and the year before, IIRC.)
 * --Connel MacKenzie 04:52, 13 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Rest assured, I've planned all along to do the include-only subst of the PAGENAME part before subst'ing the template proper. I don't think anyone will add tone characters a year from now - at least not pinyin transliteration tones, as there is a finite set of those which will all be done. I give it about two weeks, at my current clip. Cheers! <i style="background:lightgreen">bd2412</i> T 05:14, 13 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Connel, we certainly don't want to use ===Pinyin=== for words. The thing is that we also have entries for letters, characters, symbols, and syllables with and without tones, readings. These all use L3 headers that aren't POSes; and it seems reasonable. See for example き (ki), which use "Hiragana letter" and "Kanji reading" as well as "Noun". It seems reasonable to use "Pinyin" here, unless someone has a better idea? And as BD2412 points out, this is a finite set for Mandarin.
 * Oh, and the target section (#Mandarin) always exists in the Mandarin pinyin entry linked to. Robert Ullmann 11:55, 13 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Right - it was not clear to me that there is a finite closed set of these, that no more can ever possibly be added to. --Connel MacKenzie 17:06, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

Hey!
I know you, you're the guy who proposed the Warehousing scheme! Cool! 216.11.222.21 17:31, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

plural of
When using template:plural of please include brackets around the singular term ( so that the page is counted in the article count of the wiki.  Thanks! - TheDaveRoss 05:02, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

Thank you
Dear BD2412,

Thank you for signaling your confidence in my ability to act as a CheckUser for the English Wiktionary. Your vote means a lot to me. I deeply appreciate it.

You may not be aware, but the Meta: policy dictates that there must be multiple CheckUsers on any given project, or else none will be granted. Each must get 25 votes on their local wiki, as per Meta: policy, to be granted the CheckUser privilege.

I'd like to take a moment to endorse my friends and co-runners. Each of them offers different skills that, as a whole, complement the needs of the English Wiktionary.


 * 1) User:Uncle G has been an English Wikipedia sysop longer than he's been an English Wiktionary sysop.  This year (2006) he has refocused his efforts outside of Wiktionary.  He was dragged away from Wiktionary while cleaning up the tens of thousands of entries on Wikipedia that linked incorrectly to Wiktionary after the case-sensitivity change in June 2005.  He knows Wiktionary very well.  And he is very competent at focusing his efforts wherever they are most needed.  He operated the original Transwiki: bot, before we had the Special:Import feature we have now.
 * 2) User:Kipmaster is a French Wiktionnaire sysop and bot operator who is very technically capable.  He also is in Europe, making his hours of availability complementary to his American counterparts.  He is active in WiktionaryZ imports and understands very well which data can be imported here, from there.  He normally acts as our primary liaison to fr.wiktionary, whenever compatibility issues arise.
 * 3) User:Jon Harald Søby is a steward.  As a meta: steward, he is the primary person we call on to perform CheckUser checks now.  His availability is often limited, but his Central European timezone proves to be very, very useful on occasion.  He has contributed extensively to Wiktionary over the years.
 * 4) User:Kelly Martin was recently called in to help perform CheckUser checks on the English Wiktionary.  She is currently up for election also for the Board of Trustees of Wikimedia Foundation.  (In the unlikely event she wins that election, she will no longer be available to pursue her CheckUser nomination here.)  Since she also has CheckUser privilege on other sister projects, she is accustomed to the 'can's and 'cannot's of CheckUser procedures, in detail.

I hope you can take a moment to consider these fine candidates again. Your support means a great deal to them, as well as to Wiktionary's ability to perform its own CheckUser checks in a timely manner.

Thank you again, for your support. --Connel MacKenzie 06:22, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

dán
Looking at this entry, I'm left wondering why the English term isn't listed? Has this been discussed somewhere at length that can read up on? This seems quite wrong to me. --Connel MacKenzie 21:30, 15 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Is there an English word dán? I was not aware of it. <i style="background:lightgreen">bd2412</i> T 21:42, 15 September 2006 (UTC)
 * I don't know if there is, but that wasn't what I meant. The "translation" listed is for another foreign term!  --Connel MacKenzie 05:21, 16 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Strictly speaking, it is not a "translation" but a "transliteration" - the roman alphabet version of the Chinese character. I'll sort through the definitions once I have the initial entries done! <i style="background:lightgreen">bd2412</i> T 05:27, 16 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Oh, OK. Sorry for stepping on your toes, then.  Keep up the great work!  --Connel MacKenzie 05:32, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

No "Verb form"
As per WT:ELE I'll change those all to ===Verb===. --Connel MacKenzie 05:16, 16 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Oook - well you could have just said something - the block I could have done without. I can fix them back. I did not realize that was incorrect, as I've been using that header for quite some time without raising any comment! <i style="background:lightgreen">bd2412</i> T 05:18, 16 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Sorry about that. I saw a high edit rate, and instinct kicked in.  --Connel MacKenzie 05:20, 16 September 2006 (UTC)
 * In that case, can you do me the favor of unblocking me? I will not unblock myself, on principle. <i style="background:lightgreen">bd2412</i> T 05:22, 16 September 2006 (UTC)
 * oops - never mind, I see you have. <i style="background:lightgreen">bd2412</i> T 05:25, 16 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Right. Unlike Wikipedia, blocked users cannot edit their talk pages here.  --Connel MacKenzie 05:30, 16 September 2006 (UTC)
 * By the way, a talk page message will stop AWB just as effectively as a block - it shuts down until you check the message. <i style="background:lightgreen">bd2412</i> T 05:31, 16 September 2006 (UTC)
 * I shall try to remember that! After all, that was all I intended in the first place.  --Connel MacKenzie 05:33, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

Would all this be faster and easier to discuss on Wiktionary IRC(help)? We'd love to see you there. Dvortygirl 05:37, 16 September 2006 (UTC)
 * At the moment, I have no chat client! Guess I'll have to get one (tomorrow that is). Cheers! and Goodnight! <i style="background:lightgreen">bd2412</i> T 06:34, 16 September 2006 (UTC)
 * mIRC has been good to me, hope to see you there soon :) - TheDaveRoss 17:44, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

Preload templates
Unfortunately, the "noinclude" doesn't work for preload templates. There's a recent discussion about it somewhere in the grease pit. --Connel MacKenzie 17:35, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

dán
Looking at this entry, I'm left wondering why the English term isn't listed? Has this been discussed somewhere at length that can read up on? This seems quite wrong to me. --Connel MacKenzie 21:30, 15 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Is there an English word dán? I was not aware of it. <i style="background:lightgreen">bd2412</i> T 21:42, 15 September 2006 (UTC)
 * I don't know if there is, but that wasn't what I meant. The "translation" listed is for another foreign term!  --Connel MacKenzie 05:21, 16 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Strictly speaking, it is not a "translation" but a "transliteration" - the roman alphabet version of the Chinese character. I'll sort through the definitions once I have the initial entries done! <i style="background:lightgreen">bd2412</i> T 05:27, 16 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Oh, OK. Sorry for stepping on your toes, then.  Keep up the great work!  --Connel MacKenzie 05:32, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

No "Verb form"
As per WT:ELE I'll change those all to ===Verb===. --Connel MacKenzie 05:16, 16 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Oook - well you could have just said something - the block I could have done without. I can fix them back. I did not realize that was incorrect, as I've been using that header for quite some time without raising any comment! <i style="background:lightgreen">bd2412</i> T 05:18, 16 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Sorry about that. I saw a high edit rate, and instinct kicked in.  --Connel MacKenzie 05:20, 16 September 2006 (UTC)
 * In that case, can you do me the favor of unblocking me? I will not unblock myself, on principle. <i style="background:lightgreen">bd2412</i> T 05:22, 16 September 2006 (UTC)
 * oops - never mind, I see you have. <i style="background:lightgreen">bd2412</i> T 05:25, 16 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Right. Unlike Wikipedia, blocked users cannot edit their talk pages here.  --Connel MacKenzie 05:30, 16 September 2006 (UTC)
 * By the way, a talk page message will stop AWB just as effectively as a block - it shuts down until you check the message. <i style="background:lightgreen">bd2412</i> T 05:31, 16 September 2006 (UTC)
 * I shall try to remember that! After all, that was all I intended in the first place.  --Connel MacKenzie 05:33, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

Would all this be faster and easier to discuss on Wiktionary IRC(help)? We'd love to see you there. Dvortygirl 05:37, 16 September 2006 (UTC)
 * At the moment, I have no chat client! Guess I'll have to get one (tomorrow that is). Cheers! and Goodnight! <i style="background:lightgreen">bd2412</i> T 06:34, 16 September 2006 (UTC)
 * mIRC has been good to me, hope to see you there soon :) - TheDaveRoss 17:44, 17 September 2006 (UTC)


 * You should now see a link just to the right of [log out] at the top right of the window here, to [irc]. That uses Javascript to open a window to a CGI-IRC gateway (running a java client in your web browser.)  For now, it is a sysop-only feature, only to test it to see if it can sustain the load (and to hash out any browser anomalies with a smaller group of participants.)  --Connel MacKenzie 00:30, 12 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Not seeing it - but I've never yet signed up for a chat client. Been too busy! <i style="background:lightgreen">bd2412</i> T 04:12, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

Preload templates
Unfortunately, the "noinclude" doesn't work for preload templates. There's a recent discussion about it somewhere in the grease pit. --Connel MacKenzie 17:35, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

"Irregular" plurals
I'm watching with some amusement, as you enter/re-cat those various plurals. I strongly agree with what you are doing, but I've been told that that is my POV. User:Ncik and I had a lengthy flamewar in 2004 or 2005 about the "-es" plurals, which he insists are regular, by English rules of spelling. --Connel MacKenzie 20:56, 21 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Well, until someone objects, I plan to keep on it - did he think y --> ies pluralizations were "regular" as well? That's next. <i style="background:lightgreen">bd2412</i> T 20:58, 21 September 2006 (UTC)


 * As I said, I strongly agree with what you are doing. Yes, he considered "-ies" forms to be regular as well.  Most curious to me; he found a reference that insisted that "-ked" (e.g. for verb magic) was also "regular."  --Connel MacKenzie 21:03, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

RE: WT:C
Sorry - I didn't realise that there was a 25-vote-rule, so I just saw unanimous support and didn't think it worth it to support them. Now supported. Thanks and regards, &mdash;Celestianpower háblame 22:00, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

like this
http://en.wiktionary.org/w/index.php?title=Template%3Anew_en_plural&diff=1443098&oldid=1442978 :-)

--Connel MacKenzie 13:50, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Yup. Done.  --Connel MacKenzie 13:55, 22 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Sorry I was terse earlier. The XML dump was ready, so I was occupied.  --Connel MacKenzie 03:18, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

white-out
Isn't this a trademarked term? If so, it might need to be capitalized. --EncycloPetey 23:23, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
 * May be, but I've seen plenty of generic usage. <i style="background:lightgreen">bd2412</i> T 23:34, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

Pinyin-n
Would you mind if I subst:ed out all of these templates? As they are no one can edit/add to the entries, they don't count in entry counts, and they are not searchable. - TheDaveRoss 22:28, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
 * My intention is to wait until all the basic entries are done (I believe I have finished about 95% of them, here), and then to seek input from the community if there is anything else to be added or changes to headers, definitions, etc. that should be made before subst'ing. Cheers! <i style="background:lightgreen">bd2412</i> T 22:36, 26 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Makes perfect sense, if you want it automated it would be a 2 minute bot run. Just let me know.  - TheDaveRoss 22:45, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Much appreciated. At the moment I plan to do it manually, as I anticipate making certain entry-specific alterations during the process. Thanks again. <i style="background:lightgreen">bd2412</i> T 22:52, 26 September 2006 (UTC)


 * I was just looking at it, thanks for the heads up! - TheDaveRoss 23:33, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

A thought, from reading the BP. Suppose each of the Pinyin entries had the template (cmn-alt-pinyin) on the "inflection" line, and then the definition line(s) were the characters with glosses. And suppose that the template was given both forms (diacritical and with-numbers). It could then magically display the correct form for the page it was on. Then the page text for yí and yi2 could be identical ...

And note that you don't need to edit the existing pages to add the present pagename as a parameter to cmn-alt-pinyin; that can be done with subst: magic. So you would subst: each page (as you intend); add the characters; as you complete each you simply copy it to the form with the diacritical. Robert Ullmann 12:38, 28 September 2006 (UTC)


 * If you like this I can edit and  to set this up; if you don't like it you can always revert both of course. Your show ... Robert Ullmann 12:45, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
 * I'm thinking now that the Pinyin-n entries should indeed be set up like the corresponing diacritic entries - however, only a scant handful of the diacritic entries are done, and A-cai assures me that much of the info in them is wrong (going back to the wrong source fom which they came). But I would like to set up the Pinyin entries to list the diacritics under an Alternative Spellings subhead. <i style="background:lightgreen">bd2412</i> T 13:13, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
 * I'm thinking the subhead is overkill; and it really isn't exactly an "alternative spelling". I was thinking more of

yi2 (form of yí with tone number)

yí (form of yi2 with diacritical tone)

or something like that. Should I set it up so you could take a look? Robert Ullmann 13:53, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
 * As long as somewhere in the mix it indicates that this is a Mandarin pinyin transliteration... <i style="background:lightgreen">bd2412</i> T 14:05, 28 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Okay, I've modded both templates. The idea would be to change PAGENAME to subst:PAGENAME, and do the 'bot run. Then we are all set to add characters and short defs. The entries not done yet show up in the existing category for Chinese words needing work, so several people can edit if desired. I used "syllable" for the moment. See what you think. Robert Ullmann 15:55, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Sorry, I lost the Mandarin pinyin cat (the people here changed our wireless s/w, driving me nuts for 2 days, of course this is not an actual excuse.) put it back in the template where it won't get lost. Robert Ullmann 21:58, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Do you think we should have separate categories for the numbered and diacritic entries? There will be over 1,400 of each, already a good size cat for either... that's pushing my thinking in that direction. <i style="background:lightgreen">bd2412</i> T 22:32, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
 * I like it the way it is, sorting them together. As long as we use the cmn-alt-pinyin template, (which is where the cat was, and should be) we can always change it. I added the lc TOC template, doesn't seem too big at all. (certainly not more than 200 at each letter of the alphabet) wait 'till you see Han characters, with an average of 1000 at each radical ... sleepy time now, 2AM Nairobi, see you soon. Robert Ullmann 22:54, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Tweaked it a bit more; I had lost the "#Mandarin" section link; added a stub-like template so it is obvious what to replace when adding the characters (and we can mod the cat and text later if desired). Robert Ullmann 14:49, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
 * True - definitely best to keep as much as possible in that cmn-alt-pinyin template. Good thinking. <i style="background:lightgreen">bd2412</i> T 21:35, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Going to begin subst'ing tomorrow night, will do one letter per day. I will try to complete the entries as I go. Cheers! <i style="background:lightgreen">bd2412</i> T 12:59, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Good-o. Do it by replacing  {{Pinyin-n|  with  {{subst:Pinyin-n|subst=subst:|  and the PAGENAME will be fixed. (I think you could just run this through all of them and then add the characters as you plan, but whichever way you like!) Robert Ullmann 17:30, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Actually, I was just going to add the PAGENAME subst to the template itself before subst'ing the templates. <i style="background:lightgreen">bd2412</i> T 19:59, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
 * (left margin again ;-) that's fine if you do them all at once, otherwise the remainder say subst:PAGENAME instead of the pagename ... this works both for subst and include. But whatever, you know what you're doing. Robert Ullmann 21:39, 6 October 2006 (UTC)


 * I fixed the template to handle the (e.g.) a/a0/a5 case, and sort a in the proper place. (even though "5" is more correct, it makes more sense to sort a on a0, right? looks good...) Robert Ullmann 15:21, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

I'm not sure which is correct
http://en.wiktionary.org/w/index.php?title=beef&curid=45015&diff=1518914&oldid=1439661&rcid=1363521

Certainly I've seen several people comment that the tone markings should not be wikified in translation sections (which makes sense, as they are only lookup aids.) This is correct now, right? --Connel MacKenzie 08:29, 30 September 2006 (UTC)


 * A yao has it right; the form with tone numbers won't exist (unless it happens to be one syllable), and the form with the diacritics is preferred in the translations sections (sigh, another thing to add to WT:AC in the re-write ;-) although the diacritic form is specific to one language. (as is the translation in a lot of cases, they are often disambiguated). Robert Ullmann 11:45, 30 September 2006 (UTC)
 * I would agree with that - if you are looking to write something in Chinese, you would not write it with the numbers (unless you were unable to write the diacritics, I guess). <i style="background:lightgreen">bd2412</i> T 14:43, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

Irregular plurals
I just noticed that you also added lots of regular plurals to Category:English irregular plurals ending in "-es". Please read the rules on Category:English nouns with irregular plurals!!! If you want to have them changed, please discuss first. Ncik 12:16, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

Well done..
..for finding a good compromise solution. It sometimes seems there aren't enough level-headed people around... Widsith 15:42, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Of course, they are irregular forms, but, eh. <i style="background:lightgreen">bd2412</i> T 15:58, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

Actually I happen to disagree, but it's probably best to avoid the discussion entirely! Widsith 16:12, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

Irregular plurals
Could you stop reorganising Category:English irregular plurals and its subcategories for awhile. I think we should discuss (on Category talk:English irregular plurals) what we are aiming for first. Ncik 16:38, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
 * I'm done. <i style="background:lightgreen">bd2412</i> T 16:42, 1 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Argh. I'd hoped you'd leave correct irregular plurals (such as bases, koories, etc) in Category:English irregular plurals ending in "-es". But nevermind, readding them shouldn't be too difficult. I've posted a few questions on Category talk:English irregular plurals now. Ncik 16:48, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

Bots/Tasks
If you find you have large scale tasks such as the subst you are now doing manually, we have created this page for requesting bot runs. It is a much simpler process for a bot to do the replacements, unless you really want to in which case, more power to ya. Just thought I would let you know about it. - TheDaveRoss 16:34, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Yeah, this is more of a pain than I had anticipated - please feel free to 'bot it, as the individual changes I thought I'd be addressing will have to be dealt with later anyway. Cheers! <i style="background:lightgreen">bd2412</i> T 16:36, 11 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Running now. And done. - TheDaveRoss 16:42, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Bam! :) <i style="background:lightgreen">bd2412</i> T 20:29, 11 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Um, but it was run without doing subst:Pinyin-n|subst=subst: so the PAGENAME still appears in the entries ... we need to change to  ... ? Robert Ullmann 11:03, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Indeed we do! <i style="background:lightgreen">bd2412</i> T 16:51, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

Legal assistance
Hello,

Some bizarre amount of misinformation is being put forth on WT:BP suggesting that clear copyright violations, really aren't copyright violations because the OED's copyright of their list of words (without definitions) is "dubious."

Could you please shed some light on the situation. If not, could you please direct me to someone who can? I don't know where WMF hides its lawyer(s). One of the mailing lists perhaps?

TIA,

--Connel MacKenzie 22:13, 12 November 2006 (UTC)


 * ...but do read the thread first, because as the one who used the word "dubious", I can say that it was certainly not to condone any copyright violations, or to suggest that we misuse the OED's list of words. —scs 22:28, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I'll have a look, but it will take me a day to get to it. Things have been busy around here! <i style="background:lightgreen">bd2412</i> T 03:01, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

Pinyin entries
In reformatting the Han character entries, I linked all the Mandarin pinyin (in the diacritic form). Connel is now complaining that I've clogged up Special:Wantedpages ... the top 1000 entries are pretty much all missing pinyin entries.

I was thinking of generating all the missing ones, with the characters and the simple meanings where available. The code is simple, and I have most of it. What do you think? Robert Ullmann 04:28, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
 * That sounds like an entirely reasonable plan to me. <i style="background:lightgreen">bd2412</i> T 06:54, 2 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Shall we do something with the ones with tone numbers? Which leads to an interesting observation: the Mandarin entries for words use tone 0 fairly consistently, while the single Han character entries always use 5. Have you looked at User:Robert_Ullmann/Mandarin_Pinyin? (and cheers!) Robert Ullmann 06:17, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
 * The entries for tone numbers should essentially be identical to the entries for the corresponding diacritic. A "0" tone and a "5" tone should be identical but for a usage note indicating why one or the other is used, I think. <i style="background:lightgreen">bd2412</i> T 02:23, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Um, but there really isn't any reason why one or the other is used, except that some people thought "no tone" should be 0 and some thought it should be 5 (would have been nice if the original scholars had simply used 0, but they reasonably thought no tone should be no tone number ...). Would be kinda nice if we could do one thing consistently. Robert Ullmann 02:32, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Ours is not to reason why... if both are in use (and there's no rhyme or reason favoring one or the other) then we have entries on both with a usage note describing the alternative is something along the lines of an alternate spelling. <i style="background:lightgreen">bd2412</i> T 04:11, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

Categorizing English plurals
The template can take a language parameter. I only learned this myself earlier today, but you can type for instance, and it will automatically be categorized in Category:English plurals. You don;t have to put in a whole category tag. --EncycloPetey 07:20, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

θείον and theion
Greetings Widsith! Some time ago you moved theion to θείον. However, I believe that iwe should have a separate entry for theion based on the substantial usage of this transliteration in English-language theological writings (645 Google books hits, the bulk of them meeting this description), including the examples in the entry. What do you think? <i style="background:lightgreen">bd2412</i> T 00:46, 24 February 2007 (UTC)


 * OK, sounds good to me. I've never come across the word in English, but it does seem to be out there.  Widsith 09:38, 24 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Done - since the cites were to the English, I've moved those as well (and added a bunch of others). Cheers! <i style="background:lightgreen">bd2412</i> T 11:05, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

Thanks!
I've been on Wikipedia for a long time and saw that Transwiki:Urban prairie was moved here, so I moved over the updated version. Maybe you could check it out, since I see a lot of red links. --Awiseman 17:05, 27 February 2007 (UTC)