User talk:Calak

Welcome
. --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 20:20, 29 March 2017 (UTC)

Central Kurdish
Hi. Please use the language name "Central Kurdish" and the code ckb for Sorani (or Central) Kurdish. --Vahag (talk) 14:05, 12 July 2017 (UTC)
 * Yes I know, thank you.--Calak (talk) 18:25, 12 July 2017 (UTC)

Thanks…
…for the Iranian descendants on Proto-Indo-Iranian entries. —Aryaman (मुझसे बात करो) 01:53, 1 August 2017 (UTC)

water
Hi Calak, I read on the Beer parlour that who knows the four Kurdish dialects (or languages). On the French Wiktionary, I am looking for the translations for the word "water" in all the languages of the planet. So, if you know it could you give the translation of "water" in Central Kurdish, Northern Kurdish, Southern Kurdish and Laki languages? Thank you in advance. Pamputt (talk) 21:56, 2 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Pamputt, you have seen water, right? It seems a little silly to be working on the same project in different Wiktionaries and not cooperating. —Μετάknowledge discuss/deeds 22:12, 2 September 2017 (UTC)
 * I completely agree that we should cooperate for that topic (and for other as well ;-) ). Concerning water, I had a look just after posting this message here and actually it is fine since the translations for the four Kurdish languages are not yet present on this page. So, if Calak knows the translations, it could be added in water as well. Pamputt (talk) 22:27, 2 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Actually, two of them already are present there. Southern Kurdish and Laki are missing (although those two dialects are quite similar). —Μετάknowledge discuss/deeds 22:31, 2 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Hey guys, I added Southern Kurdish and Laki + Hawrami.--Calak (talk) 22:52, 2 September 2017 (UTC)

pincar
Hi. Are you sure is a misspelling? I got it from Rhea. In modernized spelling it normalizes to, which is different from. Perhaps it is a dialectal form and not a misspelling. --Vahag (talk) 18:47, 24 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Barev! There are several romanization for Kurdish language; we shouldn't follow them, Kurdish has its formal alphabet. If u want to keep this entry, plz move it without redirect to pencar. Yes, it is a dialectal form . Thanks.--Calak (talk) 19:04, 24 September 2017 (UTC)
 * I agree that we should modernize the spellings. We need a conversion table between Kurdish alphabets like the one I made for Udi: Udi transliteration. --Vahag (talk) 19:21, 24 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Yeah good idea. Vahagn do you have any information about Armenian alphabet for northern Kurdish? I researched about it but couldn't complete it.--Calak (talk) 19:35, 24 September 2017 (UTC)
 * No, I don't have information on the Armenian alphabet. Russian Wikipedia has this table. --Vahag (talk) 13:51, 25 September 2017 (UTC)

Reconstruction:Proto-Indo-Iranian/Hrátʰas
I think you have conflated two unrelated roots here, one with a short a meaning ‘chariot’ and the other with a long ā meaning ‘way, road’. --Vahag (talk) 15:18, 29 September 2017 (UTC)
 * I am not sure Vahag, however I created Reconstruction:Proto-Iranian/rāθa-.--Calak (talk) 18:57, 2 October 2017 (UTC)
 * That entry is still confounding two roots, i.e. the Avestan word is for charioteer, not path, and is also not compatible with that reconstruction. The reconstruction itself is also incorrect, lacking the laryngeal (assuming it's from the same PIE root), and in stem form, when it should be in nom.sg. --Victar (talk) 20:29, 2 October 2017 (UTC)
 * I've fixed it up. Let me know if you have any questions. --Victar (talk) 22:39, 2 October 2017 (UTC)
 * @Victar Thank you for moving that page. @Vahag My resource for avestan word raⁱϑīm was Ľubomír Novák (2013):
 * 170. (53.) road / path
 * rōs / rōt  rʾδ(h) rʾδ(δ)(h) rʾϑ /rāϑ/
 * < rāϑa-, rāϑi-; Ave. raⁱϑīm (acc.), Pasht. lār < *rāl, dial. lyār < *rāϑī-; Ōrm. rāī, Pers. rāh, rās, TMast. ra, TVarz. ro(h), ra(h), Pahl. rās, Kurd. rê, Balōch. rā(h); Ved. ratʰy -, Armen. ṙah
 * --Calak (talk) 15:22, 3 October 2017 (UTC)
 * See Skjærvø (2006) "Old Avestan Glossary". --Victar (talk) 18:33, 3 October 2017 (UTC)

Descendant tree order
Hey Calak, when ordering languages in descendant trees, you need to ignore modifiers, like Old and West, so that Parthian actually comes before Old Persian. --Victar (talk) 16:07, 7 December 2017 (UTC)

Creating PIr entries from PII entries
Hey Calak, thanks for creating PIr entries from PII entries! If you could though, please add see desc or desctree to the PII entry descendents trees, so we don't have duplicate data. Thanks! --Victar (talk) 22:23, 20 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Sure, thank you!--Calak (talk) 22:24, 20 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Great, and keep up the good work! --Victar (talk) 22:26, 20 January 2018 (UTC)

- in desc
Calak, I noticed that you added - to inc-pro on. If a level can be reconstructed, it shouldn't be nulled-out so that it can be added to a term requests category, ex. Proto-Indo-Aryan term requests --Victar (talk) 23:53, 22 January 2018 (UTC)

Stem form entries
Hey Calak, is there some reason you're still adding PII entries in stem form? We've chosen to add reconstructed entries in nom.sg. For instance, should be moved to. Could you fix your entries to reflect this? Thank you. --Victar (talk) 06:00, 25 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Hi Victar. Thank you for your explanation. Yes I know but when I am not sure about nom. form leave them in stem form.--Calak (talk) 12:13, 25 January 2018 (UTC)
 * If you have the thematic vowel and gender, it's usually pretty straightforward from there. And if you make a mistake, don't worry, one of us will be even faster to correct you! =P --Victar (talk) 19:22, 25 January 2018 (UTC)

Calak, here is an example from an entry you just created. is 1. an a-stem, and illustrated by the thematic vowel, and 2. masculine in gender. This means that the nom.sg. ends in *-s. Please fix this entry, along with the PIR descendant, and this one. Thanks! --Victar (talk) 04:27, 27 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Thank you. How about unknown gender like this?--Calak (talk) 12:43, 27 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Both male and female i-stem nouns end in *-iš. Are you sure this is an i-stem though? It seems like the etymology of the second element is fully fleshed out. Also, no PII reconstructed lemmas should be hyphenated. This is a good paper on PII declension tables, if you remember to reconstruct the largyangals. --Victar (talk) 15:40, 27 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Thank you for your guidance. Yes, in all resources reconstructed form is an i-stem (compare Achaemenid Elamite loanwords aspā̆stiya and asā̆stiya), but I am not sure it is Haĉwasti- or Haĉwāsti- or Haĉwa-asti-.--Calak (talk) 18:11, 27 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Neither. The second element has a laryangal so it would be *-aHa-. --Victar (talk) 18:16, 27 January 2018 (UTC)

References headers
Just FYI, the header level for references is 3 (===), not 4 (====). Thanks! --Victar (talk) 04:14, 27 January 2018 (UTC)
 * , sending you a ping you as well. --Victar (talk) 04:20, 27 January 2018 (UTC)

Hey Calak, you're still making the references headers at the wrong level, as with. --Victar (talk) 01:22, 1 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Hi. No, you should ping AryamanA!--Calak (talk) 01:25, 1 February 2018 (UTC)
 * --Victar (talk) 01:27, 1 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Oops, sorry! I always thought they were level 4. —AryamanA (मुझसे बात करें • योगदान) 01:28, 1 February 2018 (UTC)
 * : =) --Victar (talk) 01:31, 1 February 2018 (UTC)
 * What makes it worse is hi-new has always added level 4 reference headings, so now there are thousands of Hindi entries with the wrong format... —AryamanA (मुझसे बात करें • योगदान) 01:35, 1 February 2018 (UTC)
 * : LOL. Bot fix? --Victar (talk) 01:37, 1 February 2018 (UTC)
 * If the reference only applies to that particular part of speech it's fine to have level 4 references headers. DTLHS (talk) 01:37, 1 February 2018 (UTC)
 * You are forgetting to add reconstructed though. --Victar (talk) 02:22, 1 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Calak, perhaps you think this is optional, but it's not. --Victar (talk) 20:34, 5 February 2018 (UTC)
 * No I forgot. Thank you.--Calak (talk) 20:41, 5 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Thanks! --Victar (talk) 21:45, 5 February 2018 (UTC)

Encyclopædia Iranica
Hi Calak, Encyclopædia Iranica isn't peer-reviewed, and should be avoided when citing reconstructions. --Victar (talk) 17:00, 19 February 2018 (UTC)

Also, when you can, please use inline references, so we know what you're actually citing in the reconstructions, be it the etymology, a descendent, or the reconstruction it. Thanks. --Victar (talk) 17:03, 19 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Hi Victar. I never use Iranica as reconstruction source, just use it for descendants. That article is written by Garnik Asatrian, a famous historical linguistic.--Calak (talk) 19:10, 19 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Cool, but then you're not adding a source for your reconstruction, which is more important. Also, despite the fame of the author, still not peer-reviewed. --Victar (talk) 19:16, 19 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Yea, In that case PIIr had source, so I didn't copy-paste source to PIr, but I added new source for new descendants.--Calak (talk) 19:39, 19 February 2018 (UTC)
 * The PII entry you created the PIr from had sources for both the PII and the PIr, so you forgot to move over the PIr source. More to the point though, please try and add sources for the actual reconstructions your create. Citing the descendants really isn't necessary, unless something is contentious. I think it was Tropylium that said, "sources or it didn't happen", haha. --Victar (talk) 19:53, 19 February 2018 (UTC)

*dmáHnam
Calak, the etymology of needs explaining. How does one go from *demh₂- to *dmeh₂- and not *dm̥h₂- If you have any sources. please add. Thanks. --Victar (talk) 21:05, 24 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Hi, Yes this is my source. Thanks.--Calak (talk) 19:23, 25 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Thanks, Calak. Would you mind adding it to the page, as per my rfv-etymology request? Thank you., if you have a few moments, could you go over this Russian source? --Victar (talk) 20:22, 25 February 2018 (UTC)
 * , the Russian source treats PIE and  as separate roots. It derives IIr. dmāna from PIE, from.
 * By the way, the second part of is from this etymon. --Vahag (talk) 10:39, 27 February 2018 (UTC)

Pahlavi
Calak, I think you're using Inscriptional Pahlavi script where it should be Book Pahlavi. Case in point,. --Victar (talk) 15:13, 3 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Yes, you are right Victar. Please correct it. Thanks.--Calak (talk) 19:14, 3 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Fixed. --Victar (talk) 19:20, 3 March 2018 (UTC)

zok
Hi! Can you help me find the modern spelling and identify the variety (Kurmanji/Sorani) of the Kurdish word zok, zuq meaning "pair" found in ? It is borrowed from. --Vahag (talk) 12:29, 23 March 2018 (UTC)
 * @Vahag: Barev! It is an obsolete word in northern Kurdish. The correct spelling is zoq.--Calak (talk) 18:12, 23 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Thanks. I made . The obsolence must be the reason I can't find the word in any modern dictionary. --Vahag (talk) 18:30, 23 March 2018 (UTC)

The same question about tirtil, tirtir "caterpillar". What's the modern spelling, Kurdish variety and meaning? See. I find 🇨🇬 and in Kurdoev, but these do not have the same form and meaning. --Vahag (talk) 15:51, 26 March 2018 (UTC)
 * @Vahag: In fact it means "caterpillar track". It is an onomatopoeia word, from tirr. The correct spelling is tirrtirre.--Calak (talk) 17:41, 26 March 2018 (UTC)
 * That can't be the whole story. The sense "caterpillar track" is obviously an extension of the basic meaning "caterpillar", as in other languages. I found the forms, but I am not sure if they are Kurmanji. All of these are borrowed from Armenian . --Vahag (talk) 20:22, 26 March 2018 (UTC)
 * @Vahag: Found it. It has three forms, , . It seems that the main form is .--Calak (talk) 21:20, 26 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Thank you for verifying the spellings. --Vahag (talk) 15:45, 27 March 2018 (UTC)

تشنه
Hello, please could you check the etymology here (not added by me)? Thank you. Kaixinguo~enwiktionary (talk) 17:11, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Hello, done.--Calak (talk) 16:17, 16 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Thank you, Mr or Ms Calak. Kaixinguo~enwiktionary (talk) 18:34, 23 April 2018 (UTC)

çewender
Can you check the spelling of Kurdish cognates in ? --Vahag (talk) 17:38, 22 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Hi Vahag. Where is your source for NK çarkindêle “carrot”? Evidently it means “beet”. I have no source but is seems that it is an Armenian loanword (an early borrowing before changing ł to fricative γ, i.e before the 12th century).--Calak (talk) 18:44, 22 May 2018 (UTC)
 * My sources were and Cabolov as quoted in the Persian page. I can find çarkindêle in many other dictionaries, some glossing it as "beet". Perhaps the word has both meanings. Ačaṙean too argues for an Armenian origin, but he proceeds from the assumption that  is a native formation with . That is probably wrong. The interrelationship of all these forms is unclear to me. --Vahag (talk) 19:46, 22 May 2018 (UTC)
 * @Vahag: Thank you. I think that Kurdish çewender is inherited but NK çarkindêle probably is an Armenian loanword.--Calak (talk) 20:06, 22 May 2018 (UTC)

Armenian
Thank you for creating Old Armenian entries. Can you please add to them, so that I can later find them and flesh them out? --Vahag (talk) 20:39, 2 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Sure! Thanks.--Calak (talk) 20:44, 2 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Hello again! Do you use some specific source for Armenian etymologies? For example, where did you find this? --Vahag (talk) 11:21, 22 June 2018 (UTC)
 * @Vahag: Hi! Yes, I found it here. Now I know the etymology of մարգարէ is wrong. I wanted to talk about it. Please read this pdf and correct it if you have time. Thanks.--Calak (talk) 11:28, 22 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Interesting. Korn doesn't mention, but it fits into the mysterious group showing an -ar- < PIr. *r̥ development. You can cite Korn using . I don't have time to deal with now, but I wouldn't discard the traditional etymology so easily. The correspondence with Sogdian mārkarē 'soothsayer' is just too perfect, while Gippert's hypothetical *marγa-δē 'bird-watcher' would have no attested cognates in Iranian. --Vahag (talk) 19:26, 22 June 2018 (UTC)

Iranian root and stem entries
Calak, again, please don't create root and stem entries, as you did with. If you don't know what the full forms are, it's better to leave it at the PII or PIE entry for someone else to do. You also created a lot of outdated and incorrect reconstructions, like *naxau̯ara-. --Victar (talk) 14:57, 10 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Well I don't create anything without reliable resources. It seems that you have not checked the resource.--Calak (talk) 16:51, 10 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Yes, I have checked the source, but it is irrelevant to the issue at hand. Most published works reconstruct PII and PIr in stem form, but on this project, we do not, and instead reconstructions are in nom.sg. and 3sg. If you lack the knowledge to do so, please take my recommendation and add the information to parent entries, without creating child stem entries. Thanks. --Victar (talk) 17:07, 10 August 2018 (UTC)
 * I have no problem about your guidance and receive them. I just followed PII from here (that was in stem form).--Calak (talk) 17:55, 10 August 2018 (UTC)

Template:etyl
Hello. Please bear in mind that is deprecated; we now use  (for borrowed terms),  (for inherited terms) or  (when we can't or don't want to specify the relationship) in its place. Thank you! Per utramque cavernam 10:20, 28 December 2018 (UTC)
 * Yes you are right, I forgot. Thanks.--Calak (talk) 10:24, 28 December 2018 (UTC)

hope
Hey Calak, do you have a source that gives the etymology of 🇨🇬, 🇨🇬, 🇨🇬? -- 19:55, 5 March 2019 (UTC)
 * Hi Victar. Kurdish etymology resources are very limited, but consider Intervocalic MIr. m > NK. v, CK and partly SK w. Check "Ferhenga Kurmancî-lnglîzî" by MICHAEL L CHYET, hêvî entry, pp 252-253--Calak (talk) 20:20, 5 March 2019 (UTC)
 * I have -- he gives no etymology. Like mentioned in here, the MP looks to me to be better derived from 🇨🇬. So I'm wondering where that leaves these Kurdish forms. -- 20:32, 5 March 2019 (UTC)

Non-etymological /h/ insertion
FYI, see this paper. -- 00:18, 23 April 2019 (UTC)
 * victar: he refers to another article. Well I read it, he purposes this chain: mēγ > mē > meh [calssical mih].--Calak (talk) 08:12, 23 April 2019 (UTC)
 * Yep, I agree. -- 08:16, 23 April 2019 (UTC)
 * victar: I don't disagree, but I think mih in other Iranian languages should be a loanword from Persian.--Calak (talk) 08:19, 23 April 2019 (UTC)
 * /ɣ/ > /y/ is common in all modern WIr. languages. -- 08:27, 23 April 2019 (UTC)

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gewre
Oof, with a controversial etymology like that, you need to provide some sources. -- 10:14, 17 December 2019 (UTC)

şeket
I'm confused, why did you move şeket to شەکەت? Shouldn't the word have a Latin-script entry? Southern Kurdish is listed as using both Latin and Arabic scripts in its category page.

I moved the entry back to şeket and then moved شەكەت to شەکەت instead to fix the spelling. Then I got confused between Kurdish languages and deleted şeket because Central Kurdish doesn't use Latin script, then undeleted it because the entry was Southern Kurdish, not Central Kurdish. I'm sorry for all this mess due to my unfamiliarity with the differences between the languages. I should have asked for clarification first. — Eru·tuon 20:30, 31 December 2019 (UTC)
 * Hi All Kurdish dialects (ckb, sdh, lki) except kmr use Arabic script. We don't need Latin script for these dialects. In Iraqi Kurdistan, kmr uses Arabic script as well.  --Calak (talk) 20:32, 31 December 2019 (UTC)

Reconstruction:Proto-Iranian/Háĉru
Calak, a few things I need to point out with your entry: 1. it should be at instead, which is how we're transcribing it now, 2. it was missing reconstruction, and 3. please add sources to new reconstruction entries you create, even if you're copy pasting them from an existing one. -- 09:59, 14 January 2020 (UTC)
 * In the linked discussion people seem to prefer ć, also claiming that it is most common in academia. So why c? ć is equally easy to type with a mildly reasonable keyboard layout, and c is horribly ambigous, I don’t even know how Calak’s name is pronounced because of this. /t͡ʃalak/, /d͡ʒalak/, /t͡ʃʲalak/, /t͡salak/, /kalak/, or /ʕalak/. Really. And it is inconsistent even with Proto-Indo-Iranian. Fay Freak (talk) 13:10, 15 January 2020 (UTC)
 * Thank you for your guidance Victar, I will consider them. For c I also agree with Fay Freak. For example c and j stand for t͡ʃ and d͡ʒ respectively in Avestan transliteration (@Fay Freak: [ronunciation of my name is /t͡ʃalak/ however it is /t͡salak/ in my accent).--Calak (talk) 17:00, 15 January 2020 (UTC)
 * Either of you are welcome to bring it up in the discussion linked above.
 * To my second point, Calak, can you please include sources in the entry? It's been a over a week since my request. Thanks. -- 22:35, 23 January 2020 (UTC)

Kurdish entries
Hi there. I see you're doing some work in Kurdish. That's great! We don't have much coverage for the language, which is probably not so surprising actually. Anyway, what we do have is some very simple entries, which were made by a robot over ten years ago, and which nobody has checked, so they could be incomplete or wrong. You can see them at Category:Tbot entries (Kurdish) (343 at the moment). It would be great if you could check some of the pages in that category, and remove the Tbot tag at the bottom of the page. --Gorgehater (talk) 15:40, 4 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Hi. Sure, I will check them gradually.--Calak (talk) 06:49, 5 April 2020 (UTC)