User talk:ECUgrad96

ASL Entries
Hey Rod, Great job on editing on my ASL entries! :) Michael A. Cooper (ECUgrad96)


 * My pleasure. There are quite a few tricks to learn about wiki-ing in general and nitpicky details about Wiktionary in particular, but well done so far. By the way, you can easily sign your talk page posts with four tildes ( ~ ). Cheers! Rod (A. Smith) 06:03, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

Rod, I have seen some of your templates. I'm thinking perhaps it's time we need to streamline all of this together to make this be more efficient and automatic, instead of typing up "Flat B", etc. I'm thinking we can create automatic "macros" that'll pull up "Flat B"... Hope I make sense? ECUgrad96

Rod, something like what I was thinking:

1) type any English word into search box 2) create an ASL link, that'll take us into ASL link 3) Start linking the active phonemes (one by one)-already have handshapes, motions, etc list.. Need to create an active link that says Dominanthand or weakhand 4) Finish creating the phonemes automatically. 5) Preview 6) Save

Done :)ECUgrad96

S@SideChest-S@SideChest make both circle motions
These should be made in the main namespace, not the template namespace, and linked to with standard brackets ([]), not curly ones ({}). -Atelaes λάλει ἐμοί 05:17, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

G@Chest-PalmDown G@Abdomen
Is the name of the entry correct? I would have expected "Q@Chest-PalmDown Q@Abdomen", since it uses the hand form for "Q". --EncycloPetey 04:18, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

Hey, EncycloPetey, It can be Q, indeed, but also can be intepreted as G@palmdown. G@palmdown is another way of saying it is Q. Thank you for your interest in ASL! :) ECUgrad96 04:20, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

Notes about entry names
Hi, Michael.

Thanks for the entries you've been adding. It's really helpful to have someone else adding entries. :-)

Regarding the entry you made at *undefined:, I have a few notes for you about entry names. As I think you know, the first part of a two-handed entry name describes the dominant hand, while the second part describes the nondominant hand. The location undefined: indicates a position that's specifically a little to the left. It's mostly used to explain things like pointing toward a person or thing that's forward and to the left of the speaker. Regardless of whether signers are left-handed or right-handed, they always point to the left when they talk about the person or thing forward and a little to their left, so we transcribe that with the sign 1@CenterChesthigh-FingerLeft1:. So, the posture *undefined: indicates that a right-handed signer would put the right (dominant) hand in front of the left side of the chest and would put the left (nondominant) hand in front of the right side of the chest. That would look a bit strange in ASL. ;-) To indicate a dominant hand position that's aligned with the dominant breast, we just write "Inside".  Likewise, to indicate a nondominant hand position that's aligned with the nondominant breast, we again just write "Inside".

Second, as you know, the handshape for DRAMA/THEATRICAL-PLAY is with the thumb extended, so the posture you intended to transcribe is undefined:.

Finally, the way to transcribe circular moves made by both hands is undefined:. To be specific about the direction of the circles in THEATRICAL-PLAY, it's undefined:. Hope that all makes sense. In any event, I've moved the entry to OpenA@InsideChesthigh-ThumbBack-OpenA@InsideChesthigh-ThumbBack CirclesMidline-CirclesMidline:. Let me know if I misunderstood something or if you have any questions. Cheers! Rod (A. Smith) 05:35, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

Translations to be checked (American Sign Language)
FYI, you may be interested in Category:Translations to be checked (American Sign Language) and Wiktionary:Requested entries:American Sign Language. Let me know if you have any questions. Rod (A. Smith) 08:28, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Requested entries
Thanks for adding those ASL requests. I don't know the sign for APOLOGY. Is it a two-handed sign, maybe dominant S circling the chest while nondominant circles trunk? I'm thinking about bringing a camera to tomorrow's deafbucks for entry photos. Good idea? —Rod (A. Smith) 01:09, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

my first ASL entry
Would you mind looking at, correcting, and, if necessary, commenting on my first ASL entry, A@Near Seven? Thanks.—msh210 ℠  20:32, 15 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Nicely done, msh210! Your  comment already addresses the only thing I'd change about the entry.  Am I correct in assuming that the palm faces forward?  Names for ASL entries are somewhere between rocket science and a black art, but if I'm right, it would be named A@Center-PalmForward SevenVert. Leaving the orientation unspecified would suggest that the palm faces toward the nondominant side.  And A@Center-PalmForward Seven would probably be just as good since all seven-moving signs in ASL apparently move in the same plane.  Also, the current production description is correct—left handed signers would probably pull the fist toward the left first, then move it diagonally down.  Michael can confirm that, though, since he happens to be left handed.  —Rod (A. Smith) 22:05, 15 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Now maybe I can do PHILADELPHIA (same sign with a P) . What's the difference between Vert and Surface?—msh210  ℠  23:33, 15 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Vert is a simple vertical plane. A hand moving in it stays a constant distance forward. Surface is for signs like WINE, COFFEE, and COUNTRY (circling the forearm near the elbow), where the hand circles the point of (Near, From, Distal, or direct) contact. Does that make sense?  —Rod (A. Smith) 17:05, 17 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I think so.—msh210 ℠  17:31, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Oh, ECUgrad96, if you're looking at this entry already, would you mind confirming whether I should have made [ this change]? I think it's more accurate, but, well, lemme just say it's very nice that we now have an ase-N on en.wiktionary!—msh210 ℠  23:46, 15 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Msh210, excellent job. You are correct when left-handed signers (like me) would pull the fist toward the left first, then move it diagnally down.  :) :) ECUgrad96


 * Thanks for your input, gentlemen. Would P@Center-BaseBack SevenVert be the right name for PHILADELPHIA? I'm trying to figure out pagenames.—msh210 ℠  17:37, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
 * What you did put in the entry for Albany would also apply in the Philadelphia with just one difference, the handshape parameter. Albany has the "A" handshape and Philadelphia has the "P" handshape. Chicago, Tacoma and Denver all follow this pattern. Hope this help? ECUgrad96 19:25, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, A@Center-PalmForward SevenVert has PalmForward, which would not apply to PHILADELPHIA, right? That's why I suggested BaseBack. (Or is it with palm forward? I'm a mere ase-1.)—msh210 ℠  19:53, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I believe that Philadelphia is a PalmForward sign. Rod (Rodasmith) can confirm. ECUgrad96 21:17, 20 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Palm forward? Wouldn't that make it *Khiladelphia? ;-) I imagine you mean PalmDown. The problem with BaseBack is that it doesn't constrain the wrist much. (That's part of the difficulty of naming signs. The P/K shape doesn't even have an unambiguous finger or thumb to use for orientation. Palm should work well here, though.) I've never seen the sign PHILADELPHIA, but it's likely made with PalmDown. —Rod (A. Smith) 01:21, 21 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I take back that bit about wrist constraint. Base back is fine. PalmDown seems clearer to me, but BaseBack and TipForward would accomplish the same thing. —Rod (A. Smith) 01:30, 21 January 2009 (UTC)

Okay, so, now, would you mind also looking at my second ASL entry? It's Kc@Inside-PalmForward 1o@Inside. Thanks much.—msh210 ℠  21:28, 11 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Looks good. Signs with non-standard shapes are fun. :-) I've seen DOG signed that way and also with a flat hand slap against the side of the thigh followed by a snap of the finger that looks exactly like the sign you describe in your entry. I suppose that is an alternative form. Right, Michael?  Can the thigh slap mean "dog" without the accompanying finger snap?  —Rod (A. Smith) 22:36, 11 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Rod, that's correct, although the finger snap makes the "Dog" sign more clearer. Both signs are equally valid :)ECUgrad96 16:16, 12 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Thanks, Rod. Another synonym is something with the "B" or "5" or similar handshape (I forget which), near the ear. Odd orientation, if I recall correctly — maybe with the palm down and fingertips pointing backward or something? Maybe one or both of you guys know it....—msh210 ℠  22:52, 11 February 2009 (UTC)


 * I haven't run across that one, but I bet it's similar to HORSE, DONKEY, and the other animal signs that illustrate animal ears. Maybe it shows a floppy-eared dog by haning the B shape downward? Michael will know, I bet. —Rod (A. Smith) 15:19, 12 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Sounds like the Donkey sign, not the Horse sign because Donkey is usually signed with a B. Horse is usually signed with a "Closed 3". Rod is also correct when he states it also could means a floppy-eared dog. Actually, it could means many different things (Donkey, Mule, floppy-eared dog, "alert dog", "alert person", etc.)ECUgrad96 16:16, 12 February 2009 (UTC)


 * By the way, great job, msh210! :)ECUgrad96 16:16, 12 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks, gentlemen.—msh210 ℠  17:48, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

Entries with student photographs
Hi, MC. I've done the first of the entries for your students' photographs, FlatO@CenterChesthigh-PalmDown-FlatO@SideChesthigh-PalmDown FlatO@SideChesthigh-PalmDown-FlatO@CenterChesthigh-PalmDown:. I'm waiting for a reply from OTRS, but it should go through just fine. For the others, I'll create entries, list them here, and you can please let me know which student is in each photo, so I can submit the corresponding OTRS consent notice. For MOVE, above, I'm not sure whether (a) the directional versions of this sign are actually just one-handed classifier constructions or (b) this is really a directional sign. If this question doesn't make sense, I'll explain in person. —Rod (A. Smith) 02:35, 17 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Hey, Rod. the ASL sign "MOVE" is always a directional sign. It can be signed either with one-handed or with both-handed.  "MOVE" is not a classifier at all, but it can BECOME a classifier. As an example, if you move a pencil from one area to another area in the same room.  This would simply be signed with the normal sign "MOVE". However, MOVE becomes a classifier if you sign something like this, "I am MOVING the table from one side of the room to another side of the room". You sign like this, "TABLE ME ("LIFT TABLE THEN MOVE") MOVE ROOM "One side to another side". Hope this makes sense to you? :) :) Let me know if you have any other questions ECUgrad96 15:11, 17 April 2009 (UTC)ECUgrad96


 * That makes sense. Thanks.  I updated the entry accordingly and added a note about the palm facing the surface on which the object rests (like moving a picture from one wall location to another).  —Rod (A. Smith) 16:54, 17 April 2009 (UTC)

When you get a moment, please let me know which student is pictured in our entry for each of the following, please, so I can submit the right consent form for it: Thanks in advance. —Rod (A. Smith) 17:05, 18 April 2009 (UTC)
 * 1@RadialHand-FingerForwardAcross-1@CenterChesthigh-FingerForwardAcross:
 * 1@BackFinger-FingerAcross-1@CenterChesthigh-FingerAcross 1@SideChesthigh-1@SideChesthigh:
 * BentB@Sfhead BentB@FromSfhead-PalmAside:
 * SmallO@NearSfhead-PalmBack Release:
 * Claw5@InsideChesthigh-PalmUp-Claw5@InsideChesthigh-PalmUp 5@InsideChesthigh-PalmDown-5@InsideChesthigh-PalmDown:
 * BentB@BackFinger-PalmBack-BentB@CenterChesthigh-PalmBack BentB@Ulnar-PalmUp-BentB@CenterChesthigh-PalmUp:
 * BentB@FromTipFinger-BackFingerDown-BentB@InsideTrunkhigh-BackFingerDown BentB@TipFinger-BackFingerDown-BentB@CenterTrunkhigh-BackFingerDown:
 * BentB@Sfhead:
 * Open8@NearChest-PalmBack 8@FromChest-PalmBack:
 * 1^o-f@Sternum-FingerBack:
 * FlatB@Chest-PalmBack:
 * H@RadialFinger-H@CenterChesthigh Contact Contact:
 * S@Chin S@FromChin:
 * Ru@Palm-ThumbAcross-OpenB@CenterChesthigh-PalmAcross Ru@Palm-ThumbAcrossFingerDown-OpenB@CenterChesthigh-PalmAcross:

New batch follows: —Rod (A. Smith) 05:17, 20 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Y@Chin-PalmBack:
 * V@Palm-FingerDown-OpenB@CenterTrunkhigh-PalmUp:
 * C@NearMouth-TipForward C@NearMouth-TipUp:
 * V@Palm-FingerDown-OpenB@CenterTrunkhigh-PalmUp BentV@NearPalm-FingerDown-OpenB@CenterTrunkhigh-PalmUp:
 * FlatO@Mouth-PalmBack:
 * V@NearPalm-FingerDown-OpenB@CenterTrunkhigh-PalmUp Sidetoside:
 * B@TipForearm-PalmBack B@Forearm-PalmBack B@BaseForearm-PalmBack:
 * 5@Chest Wiggle:
 * FlatB@FromTrunk-PalmUp FlatB@Trunk-PalmUp:
 * 1@NearFinger-Open8@Center-PalmDown Contact 1@NearFinger-Open8@Center-PalmDown:
 * S@Side Nod:
 * Y@InsideChesthigh-PalmDown Sidetoside:
 * Claw5@SideTrunkhigh-PalmUp-Claw5@SideTrunkhigh-PalmUp Sidetoside-Sidetoside:

Thanks for your help. You indicated that your students may want to see their signs, so I compiled a list of entries that now use your students' photos at User:Rodasmith/BC student photo entries. —Rod (A. Smith) 20:37, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

OpenB@InsideTrunkhigh-PalmAside-OpenB@InsideTrunkhigh-PalmAcross OpenB@SideTrunkhigh-PalmAside-OpenB@CenterTrunkhigh-PalmAcross
Hi, MC. msh210 created the entry OpenB@InsideTrunkhigh-PalmAside-OpenB@InsideTrunkhigh-PalmAcross OpenB@SideTrunkhigh-PalmAside-OpenB@CenterTrunkhigh-PalmAcross. Could you please review that entry? I think I've also seen that sign used as a verb that might be glossed PUSH-ASIDE, as in the following:
 * lean-left: {ENGLISH GRAMMAR}, lean-right: {ASL GRAMMAR}, DIFFERENT. lean-left: {MANY SMALL WORDS, EXAMPLE -O-F-, -T-H-E-, -B-E-}, lean-right: {PUSH-ASIDE}.

If so, is that a directional verb where the starting and ending location identify the object and the destination? Any feedback you have about that sign would be much appreciated. —Rod (A. Smith) 21:16, 14 May 2009
 * Hey, Rod. The entry that msh210 has made is very excellent.  The sign has three meanings: "lean-left", "lean-right", and "push-aside".  This verb seems to mimic the function of a directional verb, but it is NOT a true directional verb for the first two meanings (LEAN-LEFT/LEAN-RIGHT). A true directional verb must be able to sign spatially in all directions (i.e. TO-HELP: This sign, I-HELP-YOU (away from body), YOU-HELP-ME (toward body), HE-HELPS-ME (sign toward that person), SHE-HELPS-YOU (sign toward you), etc.  In this case of msh210's entry, we can only sign in two directions (left of your body for "lean-left" or/and right of your body for "lean-right"..It doesn't make sense to sign "lean-to-me" or "lean-to-you". So for these terms, "lean-right/lean-left" don't function as a true directional verb.  As for the other variant meaning of "push-aside", this functions more as a directional verb, because you can sign "PUSH-ASIDE-ME/PUSH-ASIDE-HIM/PUSH-ASIDE YOU/PUSH-ASIDE THEM/PUSH ASIDE-ALL-OF-THEM".
 * Last, but not least: Even through LEAN-RIGHT/LEAN-LEFT verbs are not directional verb, you can place the sign at the starting location and ending location to identify the object as well as the destination.  Same can be said for the third variant meaning "PUSH-ASIDE". You can use two hands to sign this simultaneously or use one hand at a time to sign with your dominant hand then sign with the nondominant hand. Hope this makes sense? :) ECUgrad96 (Michael)

(UTC)

EDIT (cancel, make a correction)
I tweaked some of your recent additions to Wiktionary:Requested entries:American Sign Language to align them with the phone scheme here, but I'm not exactly sure what sign you meant by a couple of them:
 * KNIFE (variant) -- 1@PalmBack Brush 1@PalmBack
 * By this, do you mean the sign where a dominant 1 moves from the base of the thumb of a nondominant 1 hand to just off the tip of the finger of the nondominant 1 hand? If so, I've made the changes to reflect that.  If you're talking about a variant of that sign, I don't think I'm familiar with it, so please describe how to make it or, even better, find a YouTube video with the sign in it and let me know when in the video the sign appears.
 * To be more concise, the tip part of the dominant 1 briefly touch the tip part of the nondominant 1 and then make a motion conveying the concept of sharpening knife. The motion is made by making a small circular and repeated motion. The base of the thumb is not used at all for this particular sign. The website for this sign is at: http://www.aslpro.com/cgi-bin/aslpro/aslpro.cgi and look up for KNIFE-BREAD, not KNIFE. ECUgrad96


 * EDIT/CANCEL/TO-MAKE-A CORRECTION -- 1@PalmDown Touch Closed5@PalmUp 1@FingerDown-1@FingerUp
 * If you are talking about the sign where a dominant 1 hand draws a single large loopy cross over a nondominant upturned palm, I'd transcribe it as 1@NearRadialBasePalm-OpenB@CenterChesthigh-PalmUp Contact 1@NearUlnarTipPalm RoundSurface 1@NearRadialTipPalm Contact 1@NearUlnarBasePalm. If you are talking about the sign where a dominant 1 hand draws multiple small crosses on a nondominant upturned palm), it's a bit more complex to transcribe.  For 2 small crosses (one near the thumb and one near the index finger), I'd transcribe it something like this: 1@RadialPalm-FlatB@CenterChesthigh-PalmUp Contact 1@BasePalm 1@RadialBasePalm Contact 1@Palm 1@RadialTipPalm Contact 1@Palm 1@RadialPalm Contact 1@TipPalm.  For 3 small crosses (near the thumb, near the index finger, then near the wrist opposite the thumb), I'd transcribe it something like this: 1@RadialPalm-FlatB@CenterChesthigh-PalmUp Contact 1@BasePalm 1@RadialBasePalm Contact 1@Palm 1@RadialTipPalm Contact 1@Palm 1@RadialPalm Contact 1@TipPalm 1@Palm Contact 1@UlnarBasePalm 1@BasePalm Contact 1@UlnarPalm.  Are you talking about one of those signs?
 * For EDIT/CANCEL/TO-MAKE-A-CORRECTION, the motion indicates if the sign is continuous or stationary. If one makes one single large loopy, it is indicated to be a single action of editing/cancellation/correction.  If there are 2 small crosses, this indicates that the action of editing/cancellation/correction is repeated. Same can be said for more small crosses motion (3 or more small crosses), for longer period of time for the action of editing/cancellation/correction to be done. So, Rod, you are correct in all of your transcription.  For the sake of simplicity, I would suggest for one single large loopy cross over a nondominant upturned palm for the standard coding, but add a note stating that if one wants to make a continuous motion, then can do entries on 2 small crosses/3 small crosses/multiple crosses.  Hope this makes sense? :) ECUgrad96

—Rod (A. Smith) 15:52, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

input needed
Could you have a look at Wiktionary:Votes/bt-2009-10/User:Di gama bot for bot status please? &#x200b;— msh210 ℠ 18:26, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

Dispute over sign language transcription system
As a native sign language user, I would like you to weigh in regarding this dispute. --Numberguy6 (talk) 15:46, 12 May 2020 (UTC)